Eddie Vedder: Mandolin Player

[mandogoshen]

Student level player. That's not a bad thing it's just that I would've liked to have seen some single string work and some chording out of 1st position. EV 'plays' mandolin, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a 'mandolin player'. Take the same song and the star trappings away and he never gets out of being an open stager here in N'ville. There are thousands of guys and gals who can play rings around him, but then they're not Eddie Vedder.

DGMW, I love PJ and have a deep admiration for Mr. Vedder for his breadth of talent in or out of PJ. My perspective is what I would have for anyone demonstrating his level of playing ability on mandolin. Not a hater. JMHO

[Pasha Alden]

Love his uke CD and love his work

[blue4]

Student level player. That's not a bad thing it's just that I would've liked to have seen some single string work and some chording out of 1st position. EV 'plays' mandolin, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a 'mandolin player'. Take the same song and the star trappings away and he never gets out of being an open stager here in N'ville. There are thousands of guys and gals who can play rings around him, but then they're not Eddie Vedder.

DGMW, I love PJ and have a deep admiration for Mr. Vedder for his breadth of talent in or out of PJ. My perspective is what I would have for anyone demonstrating his level of playing ability on mandolin. Not a hater. JMHO

To be honest, I don't think chops is what he's going for.

[mandogoshen]

To be honest, I don't think chops is what he's going for.

Well, when someone posts a thread regarding a well known musician/singer as being a 'mandolin player' and I spend my time checking it out I'm going to call it as I see it. By any objective standards of mandolin playing Mr. Vedder's at student level. Doesn't mean it wasn't an effective use of the instrument in the context and meaning of the song. Just means exactly what I said in my post. I don't think he's particularly concerned. The royalty checks all clear.

[Ed Goist]

...snip...By any objective standards of mandolin playing Mr. Vedder's at student level...snip...

Many of us do not use a measure of technical proficiency as a determining factor as to whether a person is or is not a mandolin player. For us, that designation is best self determined.

Moreover, I believe that a profound obsession with technical skill is detrimental to the advancement of the popularity of the instrument, and the successful utilization of the instrument in popular music. Frankly, in my opinion, this obsession goes down a path that eventually leads to a smaller and smaller fan base for the instrument. Eventually, only other musicians are fans of the instrument (sound familiar?).

Interestingly, one could make the same "student level" exclusion when it comes to Eddie Vedder's guitar playing, and thereby claim that he is not a "guitar player", though I can not think of any guitar players who would make this exclusion. Interesting...I believe this difference goes a long way in explaining the disparity in popularity between the two instruments. One need not play like Tony Rice or Michael Hedges or Leo Kottke to be seen as a "guitar player". There's plenty of room for everyone who loves the instrument.

I'm sad to say that the community of mandolin players seems to be much more elitist and exclusionary than the community of guitar players.

[Pasha Alden]

Hi all mando brothers and sisters

Ed, interesting observations and I take your point for some. Particularly the aspect of technical proficiency. I am a mando player, nonetheless a beginner, but a mandolin player nontheless by way of my decision to pick up a mandolin and play it. The technical slog and pure musical ability and enthusiasm make up the rest of the recipe. Again, valid points regarding technique. There are also just somethings, not necessarily prescribed by the mandolin teachers and purists among us that, just do not work for everyone. My music friend and mentor discussed that point the other day. If a short cut gets me there a bit quicker, why can I not take it? That of course, as long as my mando sounds good enough to rock or jazz about or play whichever genre I prefer and as long as the audience wants to hear it, well I say a mandolinist I am and so is Eddie Veder

[JeffD]

After seeing Eddie Vedder, and Steve Earl, do some wonderful songs with a very basic mandolin technique, I have had to do a lot of thinking.

I bemoan the fact that they don't use much of what makes a mandolin unique and wonderful, nothing mandolinny going on here, on the other hand, I cannot argue they aren't effective and that the music isn't great.

I wont say that sophisticated mandolin technique is overrated, because its not. But I will say that in the pursuit of great mandolin technique I now wonder if I have neglected something basic about music and how it communicates. I have been playing mandolin more than I have been playing music.

The past six months I have been trying to think this through. While I am not sufficiently skilled to play sophisticated mandolin, by now I am more than skilled enough to play music. So pursuit of more technique is kind of the wrong direction. I need to pursue playing music more effectively.

Well as I say I am in the middle of this thought. Stay tuned, I may yet be of use.

[journeybear]

The way I usually see this consideration is in terms of how well the mandolin serves the song, or how well the playing fits within the context of the song. As you mentioned Steve Earle, his playing in "Copperhead Road" is a good example. I doubt his technique will win him any awards, but that riff serves the song well, and sounds so good within the context of the song, that whatever else he does or whether or not he can play anything else don't matter, as far as the song goes. As far as the song goes, what he plays on the mandolin is perfect, and really drives the song. His proficiency beyond that isn't an issue, unless one is talking about another song - which is irrelevant. He is just fine at playing those four notes and two chords, which is all that is needed there, and because they are being played on a mandolin, they sound right for the song.

Sometimes great instrumental technique can be very impressive, yet still leave the listener cold. This is where I usually part ways with Chris Thile, for instance. He can pick the heck out of a mandolin, but it is in the service of music that doesn't move me, for the most part. I am more inclined to listen to Yank Rachell than Chris Thile, even though Yank could get pretty sloppy. His music speaks to me, and since this is about emotional response, it matters more to me.

I hope these examples and musings are close enough to the topic to be relevant.

[JeffD]

Where all this becomes relevant is that Eddie Vedder is an example of a virtuoso musician who is not a virtuoso mandolin player. Steve Earl as well. And all things considered, its the music.

I like your idea of asking does it fit the tune.

[JeffD]

I'm sad to say that the community of mandolin players seems to be much more elitist and exclusionary than the community of guitar players.

You know, I am trying to disagree but I find it very difficult.

[Pasha Alden]

Hi Jeff, interesting thoughts there. I just want to ensure we are all on the same page about my post: i do not believe in forsaking good technique and as you say doing what makes the mandolin so unique and wonderful. However, as you say and I hope I praphrase correctly and do not misquote: "Let us play music, not merely mandolin." I have always thought long and hard about the balance of technique and playing with liberty and feeling. I have come to the conclusion there is a truth in the middle there somewhere - that there is a fine balance, a kind of abstract power going on along with the physical playing - abstract power between player and instrument. But these are my humble musings.

Best to all mando brothers and sisters

[bayAreaDude]

Many of us do not use a measure of technical proficiency as a determining factor as to whether a person is or is not a mandolin player. For us, that designation is best self determined.

Moreover, I believe that a profound obsession with technical skill is detrimental to the advancement of the popularity of the instrument, and the successful utilization of the instrument in popular music. Frankly, in my opinion, this obsession goes down a path that eventually leads to a smaller and smaller fan base for the instrument. Eventually, only other musicians are fans of the instrument (sound familiar?).

Interestingly, one could make the same "student level" exclusion when it comes to Eddie Vedder's guitar playing, and thereby claim that he is not a "guitar player", though I can not think of any guitar players who would make this exclusion. Interesting...I believe this difference goes a long way in explaining the disparity in popularity between the two instruments. One need not play like Tony Rice or Michael Hedges or Leo Kottke to be seen as a "guitar player". There's plenty of room for everyone who loves the instrument.

I'm sad to say that the community of mandolin players seems to be much more elitist and exclusionary than the community of guitar players.

Old thread, I know, but EV a guitar player? I'm in both communities. Nobody is chasing that EV tone on guitar - if you're a pearl jam fan, you're looking at McCready and then Gossard. Lots Pearl Jam fans have expressed an interest in him not playing guitar in the band at all because it's not adding anything and muddying up their sound. He's primarily a vocalist and songwriter. His guitar playing is at about the same level as his mandolin playing. I enjoy the band regardless.

I think guitar players are actually snobbier compared to mandolin players mostly because the increased versatility of the guitar means many players never even attempt to play lead lines and just bang out open position chords. This makes it more approachable but bears almost no resemblance to what lead players do with the same instrument.

[JeffD]

I think guitar players are actually snobbier compared to mandolin players mostly because the increased versatility of the guitar means many players never even attempt to play lead lines and just bang out open position chords. This makes it more approachable but bears almost no resemblance to what lead players do with the same instrument.

I know a lot of first position chordbanger guitarists, to the extent that it seems it is just one way the guitar is played. Then again, the difference between guitar player and musician, between playing guitar and playing music. Its no where near as simple as I once thought, to navigate these definitions.

[MaggieMae]

Oh my word, that rendition of Under Pressure was fabulous!!! (I know, no mandolin content..) I love Rise, and now I want to learn to play after watching Eddie do it.

[bohemianbiker]

.... [snip]

I think guitar players are actually snobbier compared to mandolin players mostly because the increased versatility of the guitar means many players never even attempt to play lead lines and just bang out open position chords. This makes it more approachable but bears almost no resemblance to what lead players do with the same instrument.

Having come to the mandolin community 2 years ago, but been banging on the guitar for 20 years or so, I have found the mandolin community to be more supportive than the guitar community. Without exception the mandolin players I have met in person have been supportive, whereas this has not always been true for guitar. Of course, it's not fair to label entire communities, and I wonder if part of this is that I'm hanging out with older players, and the maturing that can (but does not always) come with age. Maybe it's apples to oranges, but I have really enjoyed becoming part of the mandolin community. bb

[Stevo75]

Old thread I know, but I'm trying to learn Rise and the intro picking pattern is actually pretty tricky. He doesn't really do it on the live video above (he does a simplified version), but listen to the recording (or the first You Tube video posted in this thread) and you'll hear it. I'm not saying it's super advanced, but I think most students would have a difficult time with it. I'm an intermediate level player and I cannot do this - although I'll get it if I keep at it long enough.

[Stevo75]

As far as I can tell, he's just using the two finger G chord and playing the following strings:

G A D A E - E D A G - G A D (and then some strumming stuff...)

At the very least this is a good right hand exercise

[Roger Moss]

Many of us do not use a measure of technical proficiency as a determining factor as to whether a person is or is not a mandolin player. For us, that designation is best self determined.

Moreover, I believe that a profound obsession with technical skill is detrimental to the advancement of the popularity of the instrument, and the successful utilization of the instrument in popular music. Frankly, in my opinion, this obsession goes down a path that eventually leads to a smaller and smaller fan base for the instrument. Eventually, only other musicians are fans of the instrument (sound familiar?).

Interestingly, one could make the same "student level" exclusion when it comes to Eddie Vedder's guitar playing, and thereby claim that he is not a "guitar player", though I can not think of any guitar players who would make this exclusion. Interesting...I believe this difference goes a long way in explaining the disparity in popularity between the two instruments. One need not play like Tony Rice or Michael Hedges or Leo Kottke to be seen as a "guitar player". There's plenty of room for everyone who loves the instrument.

I'm sad to say that the community of mandolin players seems to be much more elitist and exclusionary than the community of guitar players.

Hear hear!!!