Must know Celtic tunes

[John McGann]

You will probably get the nod on WBB, so practice up.

That I will

...some bluegrass-oriented folks might not be aware that in trad Irish sessions, everyone plays the melody all at once; there are no 'breaks' or solos, it's a big mass organism playing the melody together (it was a surprise to me when I discovered that fact)...not the world's most varied set of arranging techniques!

There are also a lot of upsides to trad sessions ; it's interesting that in American styles we go around the circle and everyone has their say; in the Irish session, it's a big group dynamic, with no one instrumentalist 'stepping out'- that's reserved for the singers, who are usually encouraged to sing solo...that's partly an old Irish cultural thing of 'not being too big for your britches' as my Grandmother used to say.

[JeffD]

it was mostly Irish stuff you tended to hear - very often learnt off Bothy Band records. .

The Bothy Band albums were my "Harvard" of tradidional music. My "Yale" was the Edinburgh Folk Festival, which was a piping festival on top of a fiddle festival overlapping with a harp festival, and which I attended three years running. There were lots of "Irish" sessions, which were all too fast for me, and several less "orthodox" sessions (especially at Sandy Belle's) that were Irish and Scottish and crazy stuff of all kinds.(I remember hearing "If I were a Rich Man" on a four string banjo.)

I went a little nuts as only a true fanatic can. I would go to sessions till very late. I would play what I could, which at first was not much. I would take my cassette recorder, loaded with the day's catch, back to the B&B, where I would be up most of the rest of the night learning tunes off the recording, writing them out if necessary. Next afternoon back to the festival, back to the sessions, knowing a bit more, being able to play a bit more.

Repeat every night for a week.

I came away being able to play most of what I heard, but more importantly I learned three life lessons, that have served me well:

1 - You don't HAVE to play every tune. Heck, if I knew every tune I would never get to drink.

2 - There is no front door to this stuff. You just jump in the middle somewhere and swim as best you can out to an edge, and then systematically work it from there.

3 - With passion, love, caffeine and sugar loading, and there ain't nothing we can't do.


.

[Dagger Gordon]

That's it, Jeff!

[Bertram Henze]

You don't HAVE to play every tune.

That's the most important mental sanity rule indeed.
With some 4000 existing tunes, the odds would be like drinking up Loch Ness to reveal the monster.

Bertram

[Eddie Sheehy]

Isn't Loch Ness water? Don't you have a better analogy? How about Campbelltown Loch?

[John Bertotti]

Eddie why is the song I like frowned apon? I'm used to being frowned at so it isn't a problem for me! Haha

[John Flynn]

Eddie why is the song I like frowned apon? I'm used to being frowned at so it isn't a problem for me! Haha

I'll take a stab at this. First, it is a great tune and there is nothing wrong with you liking it. But I think "The Irish Washerwoman" has become too much of a stereotyped Irish tune. It's gotten overplayed as a soundtrack in Irish-related movies, Irish cameos on TV sitcoms and Irish-themed commercials to the point it has almost come to represent a parody of Irish music and culture. It's sort of like "The Ballad of Jed Clampett" and "Dueling Banjos" are to bluegrass. It's also like people yelling "Freebird" to local rock bands and people thinking that Italian mandolin music is "Speak Softly Love" from the Godfather. Nothing wrong with any of those tunes absent the context, but sometimes context is important.

[John Bertotti]

I got it. Funny but I love those BG tunes oddly I don't know that godfather tune. Bertotti ;0

[Eddie Sheehy]

Nothing wrong with the tune and I really like it, but you won't hear it at a "serious ITM session". However, I'll play it for you anytime, anywhere.

[Dagger Gordon]

We sometimes play it for a Military Two Step, near the end. Fits well and gives it a lift, although there is something a bit corny about Two Step tunes (they're not exactly jigs - more a slightly different kind of 6/8 tune). Some song tunes like 'If you're Irish step into the parlour' are the kind of rhythm.

We tend to play the Shetland Two Step by Frank Jamieson or The Ornithologist by Freeland Barbour, BTW.

[Bruce Evans]

...some bluegrass-oriented folks might not be aware that in trad Irish sessions, everyone plays the melody all at once; there are no 'breaks' or solos, it's a big mass organism playing the melody together (it was a surprise to me when I discovered that fact)...not the world's most varied set of arranging techniques!

We do it both ways. Most of the time it's the "mass organism" approach, but if there is an instrument or player that someone particularly wants to hear they will call towards the end of a verse, "guitar" or "mandolin," or once in a while, "bodhran" and give that player/instrument a cycle of their own. No one has ever called "war pipes." We did mention to that guy that they are awfully loud.

Yes, we ARE the great unwashed. We don't care how "They" do things in Dublin. Some people even eat pizza with their Guinness.

[John McGann]

We do it both ways. Most of the time it's the "mass organism" approach, but if there is an instrument or player that someone particularly wants to hear they will call towards the end of a verse, "guitar" or "mandolin," or once in a while, "bodhran" and give that player/instrument a cycle of their own. No one has ever called "war pipes." We did mention to that guy that they are awfully loud.

Yes, we ARE the great unwashed. We don't care how "They" do things in Dublin. Some people even eat pizza with their Guinness.

Amen! As I said, my "never" applies to established sessions organized by and for those folks who are specifically (and exclusively, for better or worse) playing ITM- you just are not going to hear "Liberty" at those kind of sessions. I wasn't judging your local session, it's just an observation of fact in these kind of sessions that dot the globe from your friendly neighborhood reporter (as in don't shoot the messenger!- I'm not making this up!) that the 3 tunes you mentioned:

How could you possibly leave out:

1. Whiskey Before Breakfast
2. Soldiers Joy
3. Liberty

As Yogi would say, "They get played so much nobody plays them anymore," but you gotta know them.

Let's bear in mind that the OP asked about "most know tunes" for Celtic sessions...

For hardcore ITM sessions, which DO in the real world 7 nights a week focus exclusively on THAT world of music (and there are several thousands of tunes in the idiom), you simply don't have to know them, because at ITM sessions that are organized as such, those tunes are not known or played by people who play ITM exclusively. There ARE musicians who focus on a single idiom of music, and they sometimes get kind of political about it.

If you add old time/bluegrass/American fiddle styles to the mix, by all means, that's core repertoire. They would not be recognized as Irish dance tunes by Irish musicians.

No defense is needed, anyone can play anything anywhere anytime; but you know what happens if you call a jazz tune like "All The Things You Are" at a bluegrass jam...if the jam is at my house, I don't care what happens If it's at someone ELSE's house, there may well be a problem...

Again, I don't agree that this is how it SHOULD be- it's just how it IS. If you don't believe me, post "how could you possibly leave out..." at thesession.org or on the IRTRAD-L list and see what others outside of your local session think (if you care, which you shouldn't anyway, because it sounds like you are doing just fine at your local session!) Since you "don't care how they do things in Dublin" or anywhere else ITM is played, maybe giving advice on what to play in those situations is a little presumptuous...

Should you/anyone travel to Dublin or Donegal etc. for pizza and Guinness, and a few chunes, you may find the session stops when you kick off "Liberty" and you are playing solo, and may get appreciative applause at the end of it...but I wouldn't expect them to have gotten the memo that those are tunes that couldn't possibly be left out...someone may need to know those tunes for the McFadden's session, but not for the other 675 ITM sessions happening on a given night across the globe.

Please don't take this as a judgement or criticism of your local session. I just think that for people new to the session scene, walking into an ITM session and expecting "Soldier's Joy" to be embraced (outside of McFadden's Pub in Grand Rapids MI) is unrealistic. I don't think the OP was asking what to play at your particular multicultural session, but at the other ITM sessions he might find.

[Steve L]

We do it both ways. Most of the time it's the "mass organism" approach, but if there is an instrument or player that someone particularly wants to hear they will call towards the end of a verse, "guitar" or "mandolin," or once in a while, "bodhran" and give that player/instrument a cycle of their own. No one has ever called "war pipes." We did mention to that guy that they are awfully loud.

Yes, we ARE the great unwashed. We don't care how "They" do things in Dublin. Some people even eat pizza with their Guinness.

You and your friends have evolved a sysytem that works for all of you. I really think that's great.

I also think that much of the focus of this thread is primarily "how can a newcomer fit into Irish/Celtic sessions". I can certainly tell you in the Boston area that if you start playing "Whiskey Before Breakfast" or "Liberty" and then yell for a bodhran solo you'd become extremely unpopular very quickly. That's not the experience many people are looking for.

For some of us, the way "They" do things is important. It's "Their" music.

[John Bertotti]

My original intentios where how to fit in some. I need to learn enough that I could sit in on a song or two and not muck things up but really I just like Celtic music. Truthfully I like the way this thread has evolved all the discussion has a tun on info in it. And for the record although I like Irish style Celtic tunes that is because it is what I was more familiar with. I am up for any Celtic music even for more eastern Europe if such exists. Celtic tribes fought across much of it way back and it wouldn't surprise me to find some in my German half or mutt half. Anyway thanks for all the disertation and thoughts it really is good reading.

[JeffD]

My original intentios where how to fit in some. I need to learn enough that I could sit in on a song or two and not muck things up but really I just like Celtic music..

The most important skill is listening. As a very gentle friend of mine once said "don't be an alligator, all mouth up front and tiny ears way in the back, be the bunny, large ears, tiny mouth, no threat. Be the bunny."

Even with that advice tucked under my belt, I could give a long list of all the ways I have screwed up. The two funniest - an Irish session where they only played reels. It was run by this button box player who only played reels so as pretty as my slip jig was, not a chance. It wasn't a reel. The second funny one was a session in Galway where I was asked to play a Jimmy Rogers tune. "we hear this Irish stuff all the time".

What ever list of tunes you learn, and what ever jam rules you learn - nothing is more important than listening, and scoping out the local situation. Be the bunny.

[Bertram Henze]

We don't care how "They" do things in Dublin. Some people even eat pizza with their Guinness.

Say it as it is. I think they eat worse things than pizza with their Guinness in Dublin.
And I think there is only one wrong way to play ITM: the way you have no fun (which is such a difficult challenge that hardly anybody is able to do it).

Bertram

[Jill McAuley]

Bruce Evans,
Not only will we eat pizza with our Guinness, we'll also eat curry, kebabs, and chinese food - though we are fond of having a single of chips (fries to you) along with them! Years ago I had a job (briefly) as a server in the canteen at UCD - University College Dublin. One of the most requested meals was "spaghetti bolognese and chips". I actually got sacked for giving too big of portions to the students..

Cheers,
Jill

[whistler]

you won't hear it at a "serious ITM session".

Not true.

Perhaps part of the tune's stigma arises from the fact that, whatever its true origins, it became a kind of anthem of the Irish music hall stage and entered public consciousness by that route. But there are still a few respected Irish musicians of the older generation who have it in their repertoire and make it their own. Hence, it is being rediscovered by some thoroughly trad-immersed younger musicians and comes up from time to time in sessions. So it may not be a staple of the Irish session repertoire, but it is taken seriously as a tune - perhaps more so now than it was a century ago.

[whistler]

there is only one wrong way to play ITM: the way you have no fun
Bertram

It is reputedly played that way among certain circles in Dublin.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Pig and Porter can't be bate....

[allenhopkins]

As a very gentle friend of mine once said "don't be an alligator, all mouth up front and tiny ears way in the back, be the bunny, large ears, tiny mouth, no threat. Be the bunny."

No fun being the bunny if the alligator eats you.

[Bruce Evans]

Boy, I sure stirred up some opinions, didn't I? You know, I really don't disagree with anybody.

A carpenter doesn't use every tool in his tool box every day at every job. If the session you are sitting in at the moment doesn't play those tunes, you don't have to play them. But, I think it's nice to have them in your tool box.

I'm done. Thank you, John, et. al.

[John McGann]

My original intentios where how to fit in some. I need to learn enough that I could sit in on a song or two and not muck things up but really I just like Celtic music. Truthfully I like the way this thread has evolved all the discussion has a tun on info in it. And for the record although I like Irish style Celtic tunes that is because it is what I was more familiar with.

Hi John- A good way to approach sessions is to show up the first time not with an instrument but with a recording machine. You can then learn a couple of tunes for the next time; also you can soak up the vibe of that particular session. It's also practical, since you'll be learning tunes you can actually play at that particular session-or at least you know the session's core musicians know the tune!

I'd also suggest a lot listening; not only to the few mandolinists you can find recordings of, but especially fiddlers; we can do most of what they do with the obvious exception of long sustained notes, but we don't find too many of those in the dance tunes anyway. If you haven't heard Michael Coleman, he's one of the wellsprings of Irish music as we know it today, and the tunes he recorded are generally found in ITM sessions across the globe. There's a 2-CD box on Gael-Linn/Viva Voce with a booklet containing most of his recorded work spanning 1921-1944. Try to ignore the mostly horrific backup playing and listen to the fiddling- it is amazing stuff; he also plays a lot of melodic variations on the tunes.

It's fast, but you can use a slowdowner to crack the code...new techniques for going old school by ear!

You won't see people bringing out music stands or using charts at most "regular" sessions, though this can happen if it's specifically a "slow jam" type learner's session. The ear is the key to all music anyway, even if you have great reading skills.

I am up for any Celtic music even for more eastern Europe if such exists. Celtic tribes fought across much of it way back and it wouldn't surprise me to find some in my German half or mutt half. Anyway thanks for all the disertation and thoughts it really is good reading.

Though historically the Celtic tribes originated over yonder, Eastern European music is seen as it's own set of idioms/tunes/dances. It's great music, but has little to do with what's called "Celtic" music. Bulgarian music, for example, is fantastic, wonderful stuff, and they use a lot of odd time signatures like 11, 13 etc.

That said, two Irish musicians named Andy Irvine and Davy Spillane (and a host of other top Irish players) did a recording about 20 years ago called "East Wind" that features trad and original music from Eastern Europe. Bill Whelan, who plays on it, went on to use many of the rhythms in "Riverdance" which was quite a big hit in the 90's (and when the tide comes in, all the boats rise-it was a good thing for trad Irish music in the same way O Brother was for American roots music...letting the Muggles know about our stuff!)

[Gerry Cassidy]

River Dance is a quick history of the Irish culture/music/dance from the earliest known days of the "Sun God" to it's immigration/influence on 'Old Time Appalachia' here in the States. Good stuff!

Some of the best recordings I've come across are Comhaltas' recording of their student/faculty seisiuns': Le Ceoltoiri Culturlainne, Foin Seisiun Vol. 1 & 2.
220 tunes played in seisiun format. They are on iTunes.

[David Casal]

dont need to eat anything drinking guinness, its a meat itself