another Loar question:

[300win]

Ok in a another thread I admited my ignorance as a young mandolin player back in the late '60's early '70's I didn't know what a Loar was. My question is this that will probably further my reputation as being one ignorant mandolin player. It's this : are all Loars just absolute TONE, VOLUME, MONSTERS, or are they like any other mandolin, some great, some good, some mediocre, and some just plain out dead as a doornail ? I've picked a bunch of other peoples mandolins in my 44 years of playing { heck I might even had picked a Loar and didn't know it}, plus ones hanging in music stores, etc., and various makers, real Gibson F-5's, homemade copies of same, other companys copy of same, and there have been great ones, good ones, mediocre ones, and others that are plain out dead as a doornail within all these models. Are Loars like that ?, variable ? Educate me, many thanks.

[JeffD]

If the Loar is in reasonable shape, taken care of, not dried out, and set up properly, I think you can reasonably expect amazing tone and volume. I.e. there is something wrong with a Loar if it doesn't deliver. Their reputation and value is not based on rarity alone - (somethings are rare because nobody wants them, for good reason), and the Monroe things is based on the sound he got from them, not just that he owned them. (There is no premium on the bus he rode. That I am aware of.)

[Glassweb]

in playing over 50 Loars i'd say they are really all over the place in terms of volume and tone. the tone of a Loar can be quite different, and of course, a player can work with that as she/he likes. volume is generally very good, but they're not all "super-loud", and that ain't a bad thing if the overall sound is complex and, most importantly (for me)... BALANCED. i've played Loars that were/are indeed in the "monster" category as well as ones that were in the mediocre to good catagory. but most are very good to amazing and even a so-so Loar has qualities that no current mandolin will have. i have played one absolute dog and yes, it had a Virzi in it. but don't be too quick to judge, for some the BEST F5's i've ever played did, indeed, have the maligned Virzi installed. and i mean these Virzi Loars were fabulous! no kidding! at the current time there are some great offerings on the market for anyone prepared to take the plunge. can't afford one? no prob! more fantastic mandolin builders now than ever with offerings "at prices you can afford".

[f5loar]

The worst Loar I've had my hands on was pretty darn good. Some really great, some not as great but all pretty darn good. If there is a dud out there I've not found it after hitting on over a hundred of them. Now you have to understand my opionion is that of a Loar owner. Non-Loar owners seem to have different opinions.

[300win]

in playing over 50 Loars i'd say they are really all over the place in terms of volume and tone. the tone of a Loar can be quite different, and of course, a player can work with that as she/he likes. volume is generally very good, but they're not all "super-loud", and that ain't a bad thing if the overall sound is complex and, most importantly (for me)... BALANCED. i've played Loars that were/are indeed in the "monster" category as well as ones that were in the mediocre to good catagory. but most are very good to amazing and even a so-so Loar has qualities that no current mandolin will have. i have played one absolute dog and yes, it had a Virzi in it. but don't be too quick to judge, for some the BEST F5's i've ever played did, indeed, have the maligned Virzi installed. and i mean these Virzi Loars were fabulous! no kidding! at the current time there are some great offerings on the market for anyone prepared to take the plunge. can't afford one? no prob! more fantastic mandolin builders now than ever with offerings "at prices you can afford".

Oh I done already got myself a mandolin that's as good as any I've ever played, it's the cheapest Gibson F-5 made, but it is a whale of a mandolin. Up until Jan. of '08 I thought I would never be able to afford a Gibson, now I have two an A-9 and a F-5 Jam Master, the A-9 is a very good sounding/playing mandolin, very "sweet" tone, the Jm is a very loud, very balanced evenly across the board and has a tone that belies the fact that it was only built this year. Wished I would have been able to have gotten either one back when I was a youngster. So I doubt seriously if I'll ever get another, these two will do just fine.

[danb]

some the BEST F5's i've ever played did, indeed, have the maligned Virzi installed. and i mean these Virzi Loars were fabulous! no kidding!

Honestly, I don't know where the virzi bash comes from. I haven't played one *with* that sounded bad. I asked Jamie to put one in my wiens.

Interestingly, he delivered another one a bit earlier to a friend of mine- we could hardly tell them apart by listening to the other guy play. When you play them yourself, I found that my virzi'd one has more of the "out front" sound available to hear when you play it.

Virzis also sound fantastic in oval holes- snakehead a4s and F2s and F4s with them can be extraordinary

[f5loar]

Dan, I think the Virzi has become part of the mystic of the lore of the Loar. Back when it was common to remove them(called a Virzisectomy) many would say it improved the sound but in truth reality it was not that much louder or better. You just couldn't admit you had made a mistake in destroying a rare instrument so you convinced yourself it was better. Heck Bobby Osborne had his put back in. When I was starting out looking for Loars back in the 60's I remember everyone saying don't get one with that dang Virtzie thing in it. Bill's didn't have it and that was the end of the story. So if you got one you would jerk it out without any regard for originality. I would have to agree that some of the best Loars I've played did have the Virzi intact. Sweet, very sweet they are as Yoda would say.

[re simmers]

The statement about "taken care of, not dried out" is important. And many, many other variables. You really have no idea what the history is on an 85 year old piece of wood. Moisture, temperature, and chemicals. The original condition of the wood; Lloyd could not predict what the cells in that wood were like, and how those cells would respond to 85 years of all of the above. Since it was considered a good instrument way back then, I guess we can assume they've been taken care of most of those years. But 85 years? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ron Pennington's Gilchrist, Compton's Gilchrist, Roland's Randy Wood, Bush's Hoss are up to the challenge of nearly all Loars. There's many more mandolins that I've heard that are up to that challenge. That's just a matter of taste, though. I'm a hack musician.

Is it true that Lloyd, pardon me, Mr. Loar trashed mandolins that did not meet his standard of quality?

I'm not a luthier, and I don't play one in real life.

Bob

[f5loar]

I don't see why he would have totally trashed one for a problem. With the quality craftsman/luthiers Gibson had in the 20's on the Master Models I would think any problems were minor and could be sent back for a quick redo before it would be classified total trash. It's all about tap tuning according to one man's ears. There are dates that are out of batch sequence. You would assume they were held back and redone for later.

[Glassweb]

for those of you who are new to The Cafe, please note that Tom, (F5Loar) Darryl, (F5Journal) and Dan Beimborn have an amazing amount of knowledge and experience with the Lloyd Loar instruments. They are our true "keepers of the Loar flame" and have served us all at The Cafe very well indeed. My hat is off to all three of them...

[lenf12]

Virzis also sound fantastic in oval holes- snakehead a4s and F2s and F4s with them can be extraordinary

I have Duff H-5 mandola (a fairly close reproduction of the Loar era 'dolas) that has a Virzi installed. It too sounds fantastic. I don't know how it would sound without it but I am not curious to find out.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Buck]

Non-Loar owners seem to have different opinions.

Not this one. I've played a few, a fraction of your experience though, and I've never played a bad one.