larger nut widths

[astroboy]

I'm a newbie investigating various brands of mandolins, as a relief from a (otherwise wonderful) Seagull guitar that just seems like a serious handful to get around the fretboard on.

Nonetheless, I don't want to trade one bad end of the spectrum (lots of reach) for the other end (too little room), so I am very attracted to the mandolins with increased nut widths such as the Breedlove's and their 1" 3/16" widths. I tried this $200 Epiphone at a local music shop and it did not feel comfortable at all -- I don't think I could have gotten past the 5th fret without touching some other string course.

Anyhow, can anyone rattle off the luthiers of oval hole mandolins who have models whose nut widths exceed the apparent 1" 1/16" standard? Aside from radiused fingerboards are there any other advantages (from a fretting perspective) of any other manufacturer's designs?

Basically I want to determine whether there's much alternative to buying a Breedlove, which is a little daunting from a how much it costs and how much I'd agonized if I dinged it anywhere -- for a newbie. While I'd feel bad enough if I dinged my Seagull, at least it's a (beautiful wonderful alive and sweet voiced) only $600 investment.

Thanks for any assistance.

Richard

You know, they call it a musical instrument because it measures everyone who picks it up.

[mandroid]

At lower price points it's often a factory build, often imported, choice is just buy or not, ..

you may find some communication with US builders of simpler less ornamented designs,
like for example, Big Muddy and some of the unbound Webers , that you may request a certain nut width , as it is built, for you as the customer .

Others have any suggestions, ? over..

[John Flynn]

Big Muddy actually makes wider necks for inventory, not just custom. Their wides are 1 1/4. Fazio's Music in St. Louis has one, at the link below. They've had it for a looong time, so they may deal, or at least throw in a case for free.

http://www.faziosmusic.com/Detail_In...rialNumber=358

I'd also inquire about the Floodtone mandolins. He makes mandolins with great specs on them. He says they are $600 on his site, but he routinely sells them on Classifieds in the $300-$400 range. I'm sure he could make you one in any nut width you wanted.

http://members.cox.net/lvartteacher/...s/page0002.htm

[Fretbear]

One thing to keep in mind is the string spacing; which is an important factor from a playability standpoint.
You can have nut string spacings adjusted (by replacing the nut) to take full advantage of whatever neck width is available. The difference in feel between a 1-1/8" and a 1-3/16" neck is much less noticeable than between a 1" and a 1-3/16".
I have a mandolin with a 1-3/16" nut and the overall string spacing spread at exactly 1", because that's what feels right to me and it allows me to play four strings at the same fret with one fingertip.

[CES]

Agree with the above posts re: big muddy and Thomas Flood. Steve with Redline Traveller I think has a wider nut option, too.

Also, FWIW, you can more than occasionally find Breedlove Quartz A-O models used in the 600-700 range...still kicking myself over not buying one a few months ago. I think you'll find that once you get used to whatever neck you have to play on, you'll do OK. I now transition pretty seamlessly from mando to guitar to (rarely anymore) banjo, but the first time I held a mando I remember how little/close everything felt. And, I'm very much still a beginner on all three...

[astroboy]

Thanks for all the great recommendations and references. I will commence with the online research in prep for a trek to a vendor where I can handle the leaders.

Thanks again, all.

Richard

[Tim2723]

Hi Richard and welcome!

As well as researching wider nuts, do look into sources for proper mandolin technique. It's fairly common for those coming from a guitar background to have difficulties because they are trying to apply guitar technique to a mandolin. Proper technique will help you avoid pitfalls far more than an extra 1/8" spread out across the fingerboard.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Depending on what price bracket you're looking at,you could have a look at the instruments produced by Jiri Lebeda - Jeff Cowherd's store "Mandolins & More",can help you there.The first 'good' Mandolin i had was a lebeda that had a much wider neck than my Weber fern which i bought later. My current Lebeda "Special" is around 3/32" wider,& the extra string spacing,as small as it is,does give more room for the fingers,although the 'standard' Weber spacing causes me no problems either.Lebeda does make an 'oval hole' F-4 style Mandolin. These 2 are on sale at The Acoustic Music Company (TAMCO) in Brighton UK. Personally,i think that the A-4 is a steal,
Ivan
PS - The pics.are for reference,although the owner,Trevor, does ship to the USA if you'd want to buy.

[astroboy]

Hi Richard and welcome! As well as researching wider nuts, do look into sources for proper mandolin technique.

Good point ... I've grabbed the intro mandolin lesson DVD from Folk of the Wood to hopefully give me a leg up, though I'm still mando-less thus far. Fingers are itching, but it's gonna be about two months before I can travel to a place where there's a good selection of mandolins to handle.

I should know the DVD by heart by then. :-)

Thanks again for all the pointers and info.

Richard
They call it a musical instrument because it measures whomever touches it.

[Rob Gerety]

For what its worth - I find it harder to play wider necks on mandos (not on guitars). Be sure wide is really what you want.

[John Flynn]

For what its worth - I find it harder to play wider necks on mandos (not on guitars). Be sure wide is really what you want.

Sure, everybody's different on that score. I prefer a 1 3/16" and have one that's 1 1/4" that I like a lot too. I think Sam Bush goes for a 1 1/4". Radim Zenkel's mandolins are around 1 1/2," which would be too wide for me, but he rocks on them.

[acousticphd]

I'm also a fan of the 1-3/16" nut width. I've never owned a breedlove, but that sounds like a good choice from your preferences. As CES points out, used AF and AO models do sometimes turn up in your Seagull's price range. I'm not positive, but the Breedloves I've seen also have wider than average string spacing at the bridge as well.

The Kentucky KM505 has a 1-3/16" nut width, and these go for <$500 new.

Many Ratcliff instruments, including his new econo models, have the wider nut.

[Lee]

What Fretbear said above is really true. Also, since you said you're a newbie, maybe you should give it some time to get used to the mandolin neck width before deciding "wider is better". I agree that the typical neck width on the Asian imports is minimal, I like just a tad bit room. I like the width on my Old Wave oval-A just fine. That being said, you might consider the Morris 2-point Oval on the classifieds right now. 1-1/8" wide neck is comfy for me, but so much depends on how the frets are prepared towards the ends and how the string spacing is set-up. The Morris does provide an American hand-crafted mando at an afordable price. I never played one, and have no financial interest, but the comments I read from our esteemed contributors here seem to be favorable.

[Jim MacDaniel]

Standard width of mandolins built by board sponsor Gypsy's Music is 1-1/4" -- and if you need any wider, they should easily be able to build you one at 1-1/2", since that is the width of their 10-string mandolin neck.

[mandroid]

A Mandola would have a wider nut and neck , and longer scale too .. the Viola's cousin. CGDA.

[astroboy]

I gotta say, the threads on this board do not disappoint! :-)

Thanks everyone.

Richard

[mando.player]

I picked up my Breedlove oval A here on the classifieds and have been quite happy with it. It compliments my Rigel A Natural quite well. Both are 1 3/16" width. Prior to the Breedlove I had an Eastman 614 for about a year. I never could get used to the narrow/standard width.

[neal]

The Kentucky KM505 has a 1-3/16" nut width, and these go for <$500 new.

Many Ratcliff instruments, including his new econo models, have the wider nut.

I think the 505 is 1-1/8.. I kinda wish it were 1-3/16 instead.

[astroboy]

I picked up my Breedlove oval A here on the classifieds and have been quite happy with it. It compliments my Rigel A Natural quite well. Both are 1 3/16" width. Prior to the Breedlove I had an Eastman 614 for about a year. I never could get used to the narrow/standard width.

If you don't mind my asking, about what did the (presumably Breedlove Quartz OO) go for in the classifieds, was it used, and about when?

Please ignore the questions if they seem intrusive. Thanks.

Richard

[thomas flood]

Hi, Tom Flood here, I can make you a mando with any size nut you want!

[Tracy Ballinger]

Jades have a 1 3/16" nut

[EdHanrahan]

Yeah but, nodody's talking about what size fingers are involved. And many of us, having started as guitar players, have made our share of mistakes and mis-judgments, learning the hard way that mandolin is not a little guitar, and fingering is somewhat different.

My test for what works is a 0220 Em chord. With my "average" size fingers, one fingertip can press the two middle pairs. On a wider fingerboard, one fingertip isn't enough, but there's still not enough room for TWO fingers, as on guitar. I found that I could adapt to surprisingly narrow boards (that initially "seemed" uncomfortable) but not to the wider ones. Your fingers & mileage may differ!

And don't forget setup, the normal maintenance that should apply to all instruments, especially when they're new:

With a proper setup, your comment that "I don't think I could have gotten past the 5th fret without touching some other string course" really shouldn't apply, regardless of price, because the spacing spreads out as the string height from the fingerboard increases. I'd guess (confidently!) that the Epiphone's strings are TOO high above the fingerboard at either the bridge or nut, probably both.

[Rob Gerety]

The bottom line for me is that you will adjust to almost anything and its not worth stressing over as long as you aren't way way out on the extremes. However, I personally think that for hands within a pretty wide range the notion that guitar players (like myself) will do better with a wider than typical mando fretboard is incorrect. I have somewhat thick hands - I wear a mens large glove - maybe XL sometimes. I use a 1 13/16 nut width or a 1 3/4 nut width on guitar but I have also played even wider. I quickly adjusted to my Eastman nut which I believe is 1 1/16. I am shopping for a new mando and this weekend I played everything from 1 inch to 1 1/4 inch. I had no real problems with any of them. I am sure that after a couple of weeks I will adapt to whatever I buy. But, since I know I can play the 1 1/16 board I guess if I had to choose I would pick 1 1/16 or 1 1/8 and flat, not radius. But if I found a mando that differed and I liked the tone etc. I would not hesitate to go bigger than that - or to go with radius.