"planting"

[Jkf_Alone]

Great advice Doug!

[Nick Triesch]

I plant because the best of the best plant. Also it helps me pick very fast and clean on the single notes. However, when I chop, I do not plant. To me, planting your pinky is the correct way to pick. Nick

[AlanN]

There is a youtube of the NGR back in the day playing Reach. This tune, you may recall, features just an awesome solo by Sam where he double-times several measures in the middle of his break. The close-up shows his right hand moving slightly up to the nut, planting yon pinky, launching into the flurry, then un-planting and moving back down toward the bridge to finish up.

Just sayin...

[John Flynn]

I plant because the best of the best plant. Also it helps me pick very fast and clean on the single notes. However, when I chop, I do not plant. To me, planting your pinky is the correct way to pick. Nick

If you are talking wrist planting, that is one thing. Pinky planting, or posting, which is the topic the OP this thread with, is another. The Right Hand Technique Study of 20 top mandolin players done by Mike Stangeland concluded that "It seems that most of them play with slightly to very opened hand and they drag the tips of their pinky and ring fingers on the pickguard or the top of the mandolin." Notice he said "drag," not plant or post.

Also, it is worth noting that Bill Monroe, Dave Appollon and Jethro Burns did not plant, or post, their pinkies. Current players Carlo Aonzo, Andy Statman and Chris Thile do not plant, or post, their pinkies. So the blanket statement "the best of the best plant" cannot be fully supported.

[JeffD]

The Right Hand Technique Study of 20 top mandolin players done by Mike Stangeland concluded that "It seems that most of them play with slightly to very opened hand and they drag the tips of their pinky and ring fingers on the pickguard or the top of the mandolin." Notice he said "drag," not plant or post.

.

That finger drag brushing thing I do a lot too, perhaps most of the time.

[Nick Triesch]

Ok, Ok, you are right. How bout this....A whole bunch of the best of the best plant the pinky! I'm planting right now!!! Plant, plant plant! And drag!

[mandolirius]

Ok, Ok, you are right. How bout this....A whole bunch of the best of the best plant the pinky! I'm planting right now!!! Plant, plant plant! And drag!

Just curious, aside from Adam Steffey and (occasionally) Sam Bush, who are the "best of the best" who plant?

[John Flynn]

Just curious, aside from Adam Steffey and (occasionally) Sam Bush, who are the "best of the best" who plant?

The Right Hand Techniques Study is at the link below. There are quite a few notables who plant. That's what makes this whole topic so perplexing.

http://www.mandozine.com/index.php/t...chnique_study/

[John McGann]

Just curious, aside from Adam Steffey and (occasionally) Sam Bush, who are the "best of the best" who plant?

Good question! Sam will be the first to tell you "don't copy me" since he had to adjust his technique after having a car door slammed on his hand...

Steffy wishes he didn't plant...

[Mike Bunting]

The Right Hand Techniques Study is at the link below. There are quite a few notables to plant. That's what makes this whole topic so perplexing.

http://www.mandozine.com/index.php/t...chnique_study/

I'm not sure about the accuracy of that study, at least as it pertains to Compton. I've bee watching a lot of his videos lately and I don't see any fingers touching the top. Not trying to start an argument, I don't really care how anyone holds or handles their pick, I'm a freehander myself.

[nathanlivers]

I'm a glider, my hand isn't planted but it does graze the top of my mando, usually my ring and pinky fingers curl under the strings and my middle finger sticks straight out, not tryin to give the audience the bird, but that's whats comfy, its what I found to pull the the best tone and volume for me.

[Mike Bunting]

I don't quite understand how you pick with those two fingers under the string, I couldn't get any wrist movement at all doing that.

[mandolirius]

The Right Hand Techniques Study is at the link below. There are quite a few notables who plant. That's what makes this whole topic so perplexing.

http://www.mandozine.com/index.php/t...chnique_study/

The thing about that survey I noticed was the wording. Fingers "touching the top" doesn't necessarily equate to "posting" or "planting". The only specific reference was to Butch B's tremolo technique.

[AlanN]

I remember talking to Mike when he compiled that list. We both marvelled at the breadth and scope of varying RH positions amongst the pros. One thing they all did: sound great!

[GTG]

If you are talking wrist planting, that is one thing. Pinky planting, or posting, which is the topic the OP this thread with, is another.

This is one things that has confused me in these threads. I started out playing (self-taught from guitar, with help from many early years of violin) with a firmly planted palm behind the bridge. After watching many much better players' technique, I realized few if any of them did this. Gradually I re-taught myself to pick using the 'finger brush' technique. Un-planting my palm gave an immediate and very noticeable boost in tone and volume; I was obviously choking some of the mando's voice by muting the strings behind the bridge.

I never did plant the pinky firmly, but I see quite a few folks starting out who have a firmly planted palm/wrist as I did. If my experience was indicative, I suspect that that is much worse to their tone than planting a pinky would be.

[mandozilla]

Jim McGann said;

Yes, some play great despite planting... not because of it. IMHO

Jim Broyles said;

I heard Adam wishes he didn't plant.

Pinky planting is kinda like smoking cigs (I should know since I'm one of those foul, evil smokers).

If you don't plant, don't start...If you do plant, quit. You'll be better off and happier for it in the long run.

[CES]

After being around here for a couple years now, I fall solidly into the "who cares?" category. (Obviously many do, and I do, too, but as a non-musician who doesn't have "it" I could care less how Compton or Bush do it. They're at a level I can never be at, regardless of how much I work at it. I'm trying to do it the "correct" way to optimize my tone given my limited abilities, but I just concentrate on enjoying those guys and trying to emulate their approaches as best I can...with or without my pinky brushing the fretboard).

It's sort of analagous to baseball pitchers. For some reason most lefties can get away with throwing across their bodies some and righties just can't make it work (only with rare exceptions). But, if you can throw strikes, throw with some heat and mix locations and speeds well, you'll do well. I patterned my motion after the Nolan Ryan/Tom Seaver/RogerClemens mold, but I never reached their level...same thing with mando/techniques...but, then, I don't have "it..."

[300win]

I've always lightly brushed the top of the mandolin with my fingers while taking a break. When I begin learning to play, guitar and mandolin, I did not know that was the incorrect way to do it. That was 44 years ago. I couldn't play without doing it the way I began. Also at the same time I was learning guitar and mandolin I began on banjo. Now on that instrument you have to plant, so I think that might have influenced me to stay with the way I began. I don't "plant" my fingers to play guitar or mandolin, but on my mandolins you can tell I brush the top there is always a place there where the finish is worn away. People have suggested that I get a pick-gaurd, I did last year and kept it on for one day, couldn't use it. I guess it all boils down to the old saying, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". I'll just keep on going like I've been, I'm happy with it.

[Mandomax]

One notable pro example who switched from planting to free hand was Ronnie McCoury. I have seen several shows both before and after he got his Loar, and that seemed to be the catalyst for the switch. I didn't notice much of a drop off in technique for him. I made the switch a couple of years ago, and there was 6 months solid of sheer ineptitude. Now, I can't believe I played that way- tone and speed are better by an order of magnitude.

[mandolirius]

I'm still waiting to hear who are "the best of the best" who plant.

[Caleb]

Butch Baldassari, who was one of the best mandolin players I ever heard, was a planter. That's good enough for me.

[mandozilla]

Plant soybeans not fingers.

[John Flynn]

Here's a related question: How do people learn to plant? Are there competent teachers who actually teach picking with a pinkie plant? Are there any instructional books that show it as the right way to do it? Is it something that self-taught people fall into on their own, or by emulating better players who also picked it up on their own?

I have never seen planting recommended in an instructional book, but I only have a few basic instruction books, so I haven't seen them all. I have had about six or seven instructors over the years. I only had one recommend it, but then when I came back the next lesson he said, "I talked to some other instructors and I told you wrong about the planting thing. It's just a bad habit I have. You shouldn't do it."

[Barb Friedland]

It's interesting how the topics of planting or not and reading music or not seem to evoke really strong opinions. Regardless of what big-name players plant picking hand fingers, I can't imagine playing that way.

[xenophile]

Quote:
The Right Hand Techniques Study is at the link below. There are quite a few notables who plant. That's what makes this whole topic so perplexing.
http://www.mandozine.com/index.php/t...chnique_study/

I notice that every picker on this list makes contact between some part of the right hand and some part of the mando (top/bridge/strings/pickgaurd). Some here suggest that the right hand should be completely free floating, and I'm not saying that's bad practice, but IMHO some contact is key to playing a good fast tremolo. Not that planting is the best way to do this, but it obviosly works for some. As others have said keeping the wrist loose, unhindered and relaxed is key.