Confused

[Ace]

I posted this on another site but thought I would try here as well!

I attended a layed back school for bluegrass music enthusiast yesterday and of course I signed up for the mandolin class. It was about a 2 hour course put on by some of the better local players. The guy giving tips and pointers on the mandolin was a very good player but at first he asked the 4 of us in his class how experienced we were. We ALL said beginner which we are. He asked each of us what songs we knew and what type pic we used while he examined our mandolins. After that, he went right in to playing minor chords. UH ok now I'm lost! REALLY lost since I have almost learned fingering for major chords. Anyway, I faked it as much as I could but then he noticed I was using a 4 finger chording and he said I would be better off using only 3 fingers. Something about being able to do leads easier straight from the chord.
Another thing he showed us was to play a pattern of notes with an open note in between such as if your playing in a "G" chord, you would then play:

D string 5th fret
D string 4th fret
D string 5th fret
open A
A string 2nd fret
A string open
A string 2nd fret
A string 3rd fret
A string 5thfret
A string 4th fret
A string 5th fret
open E
E string 3rd fret

Since I am going on memory this could be wrong but it's something like this!

OK when and where is this used? I asked him and he said you can use this pattern while playing ANY chord and it used as mainly as fill and it gets you bye if you don't know the song that is being played! Does this make any sense to you more experienced players? I tried it on a "A" chord but it doesn't sound much good to me.

All I really was hoping for was to see how to do "lead" and "fill in" but came away totally confused especialy now with trying to use 3 fingers over 4!

Thanks
Ace

Oh other than that, I had a good time! 10 bucks was well spent, I guess. At least it helps the organization!

[Mike Bunting]

As you have described it, it is a run in the key of G. Try it against a G chord. If you transpose the lick to another key, it would work there (I know I'm going over your head here, sorry). It is very hard to teach beginners since you don't know their level of understanding. I'd say from your question, that you aren't ready to do, or create your own leads. If I were you, I continue to learn tunes from tab and to take the time to learn scales and their relationship to each other (transposition).

[Mike Bunting]

Here is a link http://www.elderly.com/books/items/02-20099BCD.htm to beginning BG mando at Elderly. Explore that section because there are several other good references there, especially the Greg Horne series, for you the beginner book would be appropriate. Good luck.

[300win]

I think it is wrong to try to teach anyone that "they can get by". Listen there are no right ways and wrong ways of for instance, "holding a pick, "to plant or not plant your pinky finger while playing lead", etc. The main thing you should try to seek is your own style that you can play with competence, accuracy, and with dead on timing and tone. There is no "one way" that is correct. As long as you can play the song/tune with the things described above, and it sounds right, then that is your style. Yes you can pick up pointers from other musicians, but always seek what "you" as an individual want to bring forth from your instrument. If you have any talent musically, then anything you can do in your head { a riff, tune etc.} then you can do it on your mandolin. I've always said if you can hum it, you can pick it.

[Rob Gerety]

You will get as many opinions as there are musicians. In the end you have to decide what is right for you and only you can make that decision. There is a lot of information out there, some of it very good, some not so good, about a variety of techniques that you can benefit from. For me, I have decided to follow certain advice about such things as how to hold the pick, how the hold the mandolin, how to pick notes etc. In my view following the advice of experienced and competent players - professional teachers - helps me avoid developing habits that could interfere with my progress down the road. So, my advice would be to seek out good instruction and take advantage of all you can learn from those that have gone before you. There will be plenty of time to develop your own way. But at the beginning - make your life easier and follow the advice of good teachers.

[Ace]

Thanks fella's! Like I said, I am a beginer and don't know music. I can play SOME songs and even sing along (if you call it that) but when he started talking B note here, D note there, I was lost! Then when he said show me a G chord, I did so with no problem but then he said do a 3 finger G. I simply lifted my pinky and he laughed. He then showed me the 3 finger chords and to be honest, they are rather hard especially when you have been working hard to accomplish the 4 finger chords! I guess it just gives me more material to learn in case I need to use it!
After the class, a lot of pickers new and old got together for some jammin. I might add that it was my first time in the circle and when it came my time, I played "little cabin home on the hill" something I have been playing at home alone! Yes I admit, I got lost when the banjo started getting loud! I found myself and continued on and everyone said I did good!

Thanks again...
Ace

[AlanN]

Mike's advice is good for you being at the level you are at. The patterns and skill at playing in different keys will come with time and practice.

There may be no one correct way, but there sure are incorrect ways. The message board is littered with threads like this: "I finally un-learned all my bad techniques" or something similar. A good teacher at the beginning is a smart move.

[Charley wild]

Ace, EVERYBODY gets lost when the banjo player starts gettin' loud!
Some good advice on this thread. I certainly agree with it. Get yourself a good instructor or some good learning material. I like "Getting Into Bluegrass Mandolin" by Dix Bruce, but there is lots of other great material out there. Don't hesitate to ask!
Charley

[Jkf_Alone]

To be honest Ace, it sounds like you went to a bad class. Seems like a beginner class should cover something basic, like a simple song, playing in time, chords: major and minor, common chord progressions, ect.

I have to wonder what 3 finger chords he was showing you. Can you tab a few out for us, or describe them? did you lay your index down, and use your middle and ring to fret notes? Those are more correctly called barre chords.

[Ace]

Joshua I think this is one he showed us but not exactly sure of the fingering!

barring the E&A strings on the 2nd fret and middle finger on the G string 4th fret and ring finger on the D string 5th fret. I may have the fingering wrong but I think this was it and it was a G chord! Again, I think! It sounds sort of like the 4 finger G that I am used to playing but just not as clear!

He also said that I could do the same pattern 2 frets up to make an A chord and so on!

Ace

[Rob Gerety]

Ace - that description is not making a lot of sense to me. I suggest you get off to a good start with some private lessons or at least a good beginner lesson book/DVD. There are also some decent and free beginner materials on line. I got a fair amount out of the lessons here http://www.freeguitarvideos.com/mandolin/beginner.html.

[Geoff B]

Hey Ace, I found these charts very helpful when I first transitioned from guitar to mandolin: Mandosheets. Mandozine has a lot of good reference stuff to browse through. You should expect to get confused (I still do after 8 years on the mando!), but remember to start with what you know, and see how new information fits into that and grows it. I'd recommend learning lots of chords, then scales and songs at the same time, that'll build a good base to learn even more, and faster. Good luck and keep at it!

[Mike Bunting]

Joshua I think this is one he showed us but not exactly sure of the fingering!

barring the E&A strings on the 2nd fret and middle finger on the G string 4th fret and ring finger on the D string 5th fret. I may have the fingering wrong but I think this was it and it was a G chord! Again, I think! It sounds sort of like the 4 finger G that I am used to playing but just not as clear!

He also said that I could do the same pattern 2 frets up to make an A chord and so on!

Ace

If you turn that chord around, you'll actually find that it is an A chord.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/chords/ch.pl

Explore the'Cafe, you'll find lots of info.

[Rob Gerety]

Hey Geoff, those Mandosheets you posted are great - thanks for that! One thing that has helped me a lot as a mando beginner (coming from guitar) is a pattern between the 145 chop chords and the relative minors in each key which makes it very easy to find the basic major and minor chords in a key. It is described in a book by Braid Laird found here - http://www.freeguitarvideos.com/mand...ter-class.html. That is a great book in my opinion for someone with a little musical knowledge coming to mando from another instrument. It gets you up and running pretty fast.

[Jkf_Alone]

yep, He's talking barre chords. Very useful, and for some easier than chop and 3 finger chords (chop sans pinky). Just a different option for chording, which is nice because it gives a bassier sound to many chords.

As for his comment that soloing is easier from the barre shape, that's just ridiculous. It may be easier not to hit wrong notes, but from the chop shape (to me) you have so many more options. If you watch Bill Monroe on Youtube, most of his solos are from chop shapes. You can learn basic double stops from chop shape. fill in a few notes around the chord, and you have the major scale.

Just keep doing what you are doing, learning tunes from tab. keep working on the chop chords, and try to eventually play some barre chords, but they aren't the most important shape, just another tool in the box.

[Soupy1957]

not to dodge the original post, but I have been finding that there is nothing so "freeing" as finding your own voice on the mando.........

You can imitate others, or you can plow your own row.........

Imitation is what I've done at the beginning, to find my footing, but just like anything else, you become a clone of that persons playing after a while. (even with regard to the songs you play).

Find your own style, your own music........and enjoy the HECK outa it!!

-Soupy1957

[Jkf_Alone]

on a side note, I feel really strange calling lead lines on mandolin "solos" strange eh? Usually call them "breaks" myself, to differentiate from the endless noodling rock guitarists do ( Note diarrhea). I used to have a bad case of that myself when I played one of those electric noise machines.

[Phil Goodson]

Joshua I think this is one he showed us but not exactly sure of the fingering!

barring the E&A strings on the 2nd fret and middle finger on the G string 4th fret and ring finger on the D string 5th fret. I may have the fingering wrong but I think this was it and it was a G chord! Again, I think! It sounds sort of like the 4 finger G that I am used to playing but just not as clear!

He also said that I could do the same pattern 2 frets up to make an A chord and so on!

Ace

========================
Ace,
If you don't play or finger the 1st string, then you have a three finger/three string G chord as your teacher advertised. Just don't include the E string in your fingering and you've got it.
As to whether it's easier to play breaks out of this position, ... hmmm..

[D C Blood]

Hey jkf...my wife always calls 'em "rides", whatever instrument they're on. I never heard that till I met her. I was like you...always called 'em "breaks"...

[Jkf_Alone]

Hey jkf...my wife always calls 'em "rides", whatever instrument they're on. I never heard that till I met her. I was like you...always called 'em "breaks"...

Rides! I love that!