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Thread: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

  1. #26

    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Hello, friend Groveland! You brought my attention back to something I missed...

    Quote Originally Posted by kidgloves2 View Post
    Tuning in 5ths is so amazing to me. Coming from a guitar background with standard guitar tuning for so long. I almost want to tune low to hgh FCGDAE, But I think a low unison F would be nuts. It would be awesome to do this for a single coursed instrument though.
    There are two experiences which keep me from trying the low F experiment again (I commented on my early 80's full fifths experiments in the NST thread, I believe).

    It is impossible to get the intonation right on the bottom three courses without rerouting the saddle channel.

    Even without worrying about the intonation, the low F1 sounds like cr*p with a standard guitar body instrument.

    Both of those factors made it too expensive to just do a retune on a lark, with the idea of going back to standard if it didn't work out. The fact that I would have had to also cut the nut wider for the bottom strings, and then had to buy some Ernie Ball PB acoustic bass strings, and then done the work on the bridge pin holes and widening the hole in the tuner, just turned it into a project instead of a whacky experiment.

    Incidentally, although it's great to be able to just pick up a mandolin or a mandola when I get home at night, I'm more and more addicted to the full fifths beater guitar. I'm getting spoiled by everything it can do, and by how easily it does it. The other night, I took it out to a music session, along with my ubiquitous Korg PX4A and the tiny Danelectro N10 battery-powered amp, and had a great time. I suppose soon I'll find a smaller, less obvious clean sounding battery amp, so that I can just add the PX4A elements and mando sparkle to the raw sound....
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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  2. #27
    Registered User OKMike's Avatar
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    There is a double neck 6/12 string ovation on ebay now if anyone wants to try a conversion. That might be fun.

    Mike

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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    TJ, I found a video of something similar to what I might want to do. This instrument is single coursed, I would want double coursed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwC8s3MYhCM

    Interesting instrument here.

  4. #29

    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Quote Originally Posted by kidgloves2 View Post
    TJ, I found a video of something similar to what I might want to do. This instrument is single coursed, I would want double coursed. ...Interesting instrument here.
    Oh, that's Phil from here at the Cafe! He posted about the construction of the instrument here...

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=51559

    ...and about the finished instrument here.

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=53333

    In this discussion, Phil asked for, and received, recommendations for stringing the guittern for a range of different tensions.

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/gr...scussionid=283

    Of course, there are differences between the single-strung and double-strung mandophones I play in terms of how they sound acoustically, but my main go-to mandophone is now my Joshua six-string. I use it for most applications, and have now played out with it quite a few times.

    (The combination of the Pandora PX4A pocket effects unit and the Danelectric Honeytone N10 battery amp (discretely placed under the chair and covered) is just dynamite. Since it's just a mild sound reinforcement, there's no perception of it being an amplified or electronic sound. I'm tempted to rip the guts of the Honeytone out, install it into a cigar box, and put a nicer speaker in it....)

    ----

    I might have mentioned this before, but before even doing the full six-course full fifths tuning, I experimented using an altered tuning on six string, EADDGC. The tuning doesn't require changing any strings. (Although one can't capo to get a mandolin-pitch instrument at the fifth fret, it does allow one to take a standard-tuned guitar and quickly get to full fifths without putting any strain on it, whether one's own guitar or a borrowed instrument.)

    I would recommend doing the EADDGC tuning, for anyone who is interested in a temporary experiment which doesn't require any investment in new strings. The voicings are different enough from guitar to sound more bouzouki-like, and if you alter your style of play from guitaristic to more mandolistic, it sounds like a completely different animal. "What did you do to my guitar to make it sound like that?" *laugh*
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Actually the Volume can only the Loudest on .006 like it said on Wikipedia.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    There have been a couple of threads about instrument conversions, going from a 6- or 12-string guitar to an eight-string mando-family instrument or something similar. For some reason, though, all those threads have dealt with someone either adding or taking away strings.

    Among the possible reasons for that is the idea that one would only want four courses. I personally have been able to avoid playing strings on guitar and on mandolin-family instruments, and most mando players have no problem playing double stops or three courses. I figured that if so many guitar players can play broken chords instead of hitting all six strings, then it must be possible for me to do the same, plucking only a subset of the six strings/courses.

    Another reason might have been that there was no way to tune notes much lower than C2 on a 25.5" scale length instrument without the resulting bad tone. Sticking with that C2 limit would make the top string, at B4 using full fifths tuning, an impossible note to reach. Up until recently, guitar strings would consistently break at G4/G#4. Tuning down instead is possible, but having F1 as the low note didn't matter if the notes were unusable in a musical context. However, strings have been developed which now allow reaching that B4 note on guitar (with the source being listed a bit further on in this post).

    With those two reasons resolved, I felt it was time to actually use an instrument which was actually built to use double-strung courses from the beginning, instead of doing a conversion from six strings to eight.

    ----

    To that end, I’ve now had a 12-string guitar converted to unison-course full fifths tuning (FFT), C2 – G2 – D3 – A3 – E4 – B4. It has the open notes and subtle chorusing of a unison-strung mandocello / cittern / octave mandolin / bouzouki, and, when capoed at the fifth fret, it has the capoed open notes, tone and sound of a mandola and mandolin.

    Even though I’ve now made the change on several six-string instruments, I wasn’t sure that the 12-string conversion experiment was going to work out. I was afraid that the strings would be too close to each other and might rattle, or that the tension might be too much. However, I did the calculations beforehand, and the tension is less now with the current unison FFT than previously with the 12-string set Ovation puts on as standard.

    I had the best guitar tech in the area do it, because I'd rather pay for someone to make it work perfectly than to buy a bunch of files for the nut and saddle, and then grope my way towards that perfect set up, possibly never arriving. The string gaps in the nut had to be widened so the strings could be in unison tuning, the frets evened a bit, the saddle lowered a bit, and the relief adjusted.

    Given that the whole thing has cost less than $800 with instrument, set up and strings included, I am more than pleased.

    ----

    The strings I used to reach B4 on the top course come from Octave 4 Plus.

    http://octave4plus.com/

    The top B4 strings are currently .006”, but I might put on some O4+ .007” strings at some point, if the volume needs to come up a bit. Since the Ovation has a 25.25” string length, the bass course sounds a little better with .053” or .052” strings for the C2.

    ----

    Granted, the string spacing between courses isn’t as close as a mandolin, but it’s definitely usable. Since a decent mandolin would cost at least about $600 (baseline Redline Traveller), to get the use of all the above listed instruments in one is a bargain, and easier to take to a gig. *laugh*

    I’m unsure how this would have worked out with other 12-strings. I’ve owned a few Ovations, and they can get pretty sketchy at the inexpensive end. Having owned some nice ones over the years, though, I just made sure I got a decent one to begin with. Other 12-strings can be just as bad or worse, and I've been looking at instruments for quite a while, waiting for one I felt confident about.

    When I started looking for a 12-string for conversion, I had a list of things which were absolutely necessary, in order to take full advantage of having that mando tuning: a cutaway and at least 20 frets (in order to play mandolin / mandola parts), a shallow body (to avoid boominess in the tone), relatively low action (mine is 1mm on the treble now, and 3mm on the bass side), and level frets (otherwise low action would just mean rattling on any raised frets).

    (On this last point, I know that others like really high action, and some may feel one needs action sufficient upon which to grate cheese. Having had hand problems, I prefer to avoid developing them again. Several threads here have discussed that a well set up mandolin can have great tone and volume while being set up for low action; it’s only when there are issues with the instrument that higher action is needed to avoid the deficiencies built in.)

    ----

    So now, without having to invest the money necessary to buy an Ovation specifically set up as a mandocello, I have all that and more. My mandophone (named to evoke the octafone, which was “eight instruments in one!”) covers the entire spectrum of mandolin-family instruments, and should satisfy my mandolin acquisition syndrome for quite a while….
    Actually if you use the gauges 6, 8, 11, 26, 44, 50 it'll be easier to play & the Volume is just right. They recommend lubricating the bridge & nut w/ lots of pencil graphite so that they slide more smoothly. Since the Ovation has a string through bridge like an Electric Guitar (Acoustic Guitars w/ Bridge Pins would benefit from Power Pins), that'll help. Having less tension on the top will actually allow it to vibrate more freely.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The core is made from an experimental Super-Strong High Carbon Steel Alloy so that it's easy to play while driving the top.

  7. #32

    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Even with my lightest stringing, using a .050PB for that low C is too light, leading to bending the pitch sharp even when fingering/fretting lightly in my experience. This is not armchair theorizing at this point, and is also not just on my own instruments, but when working with others who have asked for my help in getting to Full Fifths Tuning.

    Besides the O4+ high B4 string, here are the string sets for E4 - A3 - D3 - G2 - C2 which have had successful balances:

    Extra light:
    .010 plain steel
    .016 plain steel
    .030 PB wound
    .042 PB wound
    .053 PB wound

    Light:
    .012 plain steel
    .018 plain steel
    .032 PB wound
    .047 PB wound
    .066 PB wound

    Medium:
    .013 plain steel
    .019 plain steel
    .035 PB wound
    .052 PB wound
    .072 PB wound

    Heavy:
    .014 plain steel
    .020 plain steel
    .039 PB wound
    .056 PB wound
    .074 PB wound

    Since this topic has been necrobumped from over 10 years ago, i'll add that in addition to making sure there are no rough edges or burrs along the string path, and using graphite as well, I also started adding heat shrink tubing to the point where the O4+ string crosses the bridge saddle. On string-through electric guitars, I also add it all along that lower section from the ball until it crosses the saddle. I don't shrink it, but use it just in case there is an edge which might be problematic over time


    Just some thoughts, but arising from over a decade of experience in this relatively tiny area of interest....

    Cheers!

  8. #33
    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    The Octave4Plus .006 String is super super strong. What does that string look like?

  9. #34
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    I did go a little thicker on the Ovation. That quarter inch of difference (25.25" as opposed to the norm of 25.5") affected the lowest course enough that I needed a little more tension on it.

    The current stringings are:

    Six string
    B4 - .007 from Octave 4 Plus
    E4 - .010
    A3 - .018 PB wound
    D3 - .030 PB wound
    G2 - .042 PB wound
    C2 - .054 PB wound

    12-string
    B4 - .006 from Octave 4 Plus
    E4 - .010
    A3 - .018 PB wound
    D3 - .030 PB wound
    G2 - .042 PB wound
    C2 - .056 PB wound

    As to why I didn't go thicker still, I'm not a fan of instruments where I have to put a huge amount of effort into being able to effectively fret. My instruments have low action compared to what a lot of people play. The Ovation has a twelfth fret height of 2mm and 3mm (high/low side), and it does what I need to do.

    Soundboards can vibrate less if there is more tension on the strings; conversely, the less tension on the strings, the easier for the soundboard to vibrate. Classical guitars typically have much less tension on them than steel-string guitars, and can blow the steel-strings away in terms of volume. (There are tradeoffs between stiffness, lightness and weight for structural reasons. There are also limits on how light strings can go on a given instrument, of course, as if one has a really thick, inflexible top, then one might need those heavier strings to drive it.) There have been threads here where it has been noted that some instruments really wake up when lighter strings are put on, and the soundboard is no longer being choked away from its vibrational limits.

    With all that being said, if anyone is planning to convert a 12-string to a mandophone, remember to look at what strings already work best on it. You know all those horror stories about how 12-strings are strung heavy (as some have suggested on this thread), and how it has to be tuned a half-step down and capoed at the first fret? I want my instruments be strung so that they have the perfect tension when tuned at the nut.

    To that end, I looked at the strings put on by Ovation, and figured out the lightest normal tension 12-string set which would work. Then I worked out which unison stringing would be of the same approximate tension. The gauges I've given work out to be close to D'Addario extra-light strings. I can work my way through the "Getting into Jazz Mandolin" book at the fifth fret without having to strain my hands. I can use the whole fretboard equally easily.

    I'm not saying that someone else wouldn't be happier with heavier stringing. However, I've seen enough older 12-strings to know that I want an instrument that will last me for quite a while, without the action slowly getting higher and higher because of the strings being too strong for the instrument's top.

    Incidentally, I recently changed my Flatiron mandola's stringing to be 13 to 16 lbs. high to low, and the second course is now a plain string, instead of the typical wound string (.0095 - .015 - .026PB - .038PB). I can easily play the same "Jazz Mando" exercises at the seventh fret that I can on at the first fret on a mandolin. This stringing is MUCH lower than the one recommended in the instrument (.012 - .021 - .032 - .049 printed on the inside label), and much less strain on the instrument (55 lbs. less tension total).

    I hate to say that going from a .056 pair to a unison-strung .068 (more than 10 lbs. more tension per string x 2 = at least 21 lbs. additional) shouldn't be done. If I had decided to stick to the beaten path, I'd still be saving money towards my dream custom 6-course, instead of doing something which was apparently untried to that point. By all means, try what you want to try... but be smart about it, and don't implode your instrument.

    Here's one more thought: The Crafty guys have been using the bottom five strings of Full Fifths Tuning on guitar for about 20 years. They don't go for such heavy gauges, and don't feel the need for it. Why is that, and why do you need such a heavy stringing?
    Actually you can go w/ Thomastik Infeld Alto Mandola Strings which have even less tension than that

  10. #35
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    Behold!



    Er... it just looks like a 12-string. *laugh*

    The side picture gives an idea of the depth of the shallow body, which isn't like the incredibly deep bodies of the original Ovations. If they hadn't started offering this option, I never would have bought one.

    Groveland, the 1986 edition is the pretty white one, right? I sometimes think about picking one of those up. I thought they were beautiful, especially compared to the opaque Kraft-caramel-colored edges of the 1985's burst. *laugh*

    The 1986 is still around the time, though, that I first attempted FFT on my 1985. The shallow body Ovation is also the instrument Fripp started ordering for his GC students for the crippled fifths tuning, and the instruments held up pretty well under the extremes.

    As far as how hard it is to press down the doubled strings, for the most part my guitars are very lightly strung, and have very low action (1mm treble/3mm bass at the 12th fret). The 12-string is even more lightly strung, as it uses the same gauge strings but its scale length is .25" shorter than the normal acoustic. However, since I have a couple of six-strings in FFT, I can't argue that having that purity of tone is great, especially if one then applies any effects to the sound. I'm thinking of running through a talkbox, a la Roger Troutman/Zapp.

    "Git-git-git-git-git-git on the da-ance flo-or! More bounce to the ounce!" *laugh*

    More seriously, I can't wait to get the eight-string electric for FFT, strung from Ab0 through A4, because with the single strings and the humbucker in the neck position, I'll be able to draw all kinds of great bowed and wind instrument tones out of it with my eBow. That would be hard to do on a double-strung acoustic...
    Super cool a 5ths Tuned 12 String. The High B is a step above the High A on a Tenor Guitar.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Octave4Plus makes Magma GCT-Cello 5ths Tuned Nylon Guitar stringsClick image for larger version. 

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ID:	204000 so maybe you could make a Nylon string version

  12. #37

    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Interesting!

    The Magma website lists the same "GCT-CELLO" string set as having a high G4 instead the high B4 shown on their Reverb listings. If I had to go the Magma route, I'd probably contace them first and nail down the details instead of risking having to return something due to a changed specification.

    Instead of paying over $20US a string set though, here's the route I went for the full-fifths nylon-strung guitar:

    Buy the preferred set of nylon strings .
    Buy a reel (lifetime supply) of .5mm monofilament fishing line.

    From bottom to top, string it up.

    Low C - use low E string.
    G - use A string.
    D - use D string.
    A - use B string.
    High E - use that high E string.
    High B - use the fishing line.

    It takes about an hour or less of use and tuning to settle in that high B monofilament string, but then you're good to go. I don't windmill or use a pick on the nylon-strung, so I don't suffer breakage, even though I do use some flamenco technique.

    Did Garry Goodman move to Argentina? I had no idea he owned Magma Music. Where did you learn of O4+ making string sets in Argentina?
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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  13. #38
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    The .006 High B Strings are good & they have a good balanced volume. Why not convert the solid headstock into a slotted headstock? It compensates for the reduced volume of the lighter gauge strings by putting them at a sharper angle over the nut. Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #39
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Magma GCT-Cello Strings (2 sets) could give you an interesting Nylon Mandophone

  15. #40
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    Interesting!

    The Magma website lists the same "GCT-CELLO" string set as having a high G4 instead the high B4 shown on their Reverb listings. If I had to go the Magma route, I'd probably contact them first and nail down the details instead of risking having to return something due to a changed specification.

    Instead of paying over $20US a string set though, here's the route I went for the full-fifths nylon-strung guitar:

    Buy the preferred set of nylon strings .
    Buy a reel (lifetime supply) of .5mm monofilament fishing line.

    From bottom to top, string it up.

    Low C - use low E string.
    G - use A string.
    D - use D string.
    A - use B string.
    High E - use that high E string.
    High B - use the fishing line.

    It takes about an hour or less of use and tuning to settle in that high B monofilament string, but then you're good to go. I don't windmill or use a pick on the nylon-strung, so I don't suffer breakage, even though I do use some flamenco technique.

    Did Garry Goodman move to Argentina? I had no idea he owned Magma Music. Where did you learn of O4+ making string sets in Argentina?
    Actually the Magma GCT-Cello Strings now have a High B:https://www.stringsbymail.com/magma-...ing-24480.html it's just that the tuning chart on the outside of the website version isn't yet updated. Oh, I should clarify Magma got this idea of a Super Strong High B4 string for a 25.5 in scale Guitar from Garry Goodman, & they use a super strong Nylon Composite to keep the tension down. An interesting trick I learned is to tune the string up slowly. Also consider using bridge beads because it'll allow for a sharper break angle over the bridge.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by s11141827; Apr-04-2023 at 7:54am. Reason: Figured out how it works.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    I got an update from magma strings that the 1st string in the GCT-Cello 5ths tuned Nylon string set is a B4. They achieved that note by using a really thin string that's made out of a super strong material.

  17. #42

    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    I appreciate you bumping my topic, but some of your suggestions come across as armchair theorizing, without actual experience in doing it.

    I instead want the topic to be available for those who want to know of concrete steps which worked in practice.

    Why convert the headstock when it already works? That's foolish. Ovations headstocks were designed to provide a straighter string path, eliminating any possible additional and unnecessary issues. They are also less problematic for string changes, as the whole tuning post is exposed.

    The volume is actually fine. Heavier strings will load an instrument top and burden more responsive tops. Overbuilt instruments might benefit, but that is not the case here.

    Regarding getting a full set of specialized strings for a nylon-strung 6-string for full fifths tuning, that is expensive and not necessary. Instead, buy a lifetime supply roll of 0.5mm monofilament fishing line.

    One can restring and retune a classical guitar to full fifth more easily than a steel string. Getting up to high B4 with a steel string at a 25.5" scale length requires a custom wire, so far only available from Octave4Plus.com . On a classical/nylon-strung guitar, one can use one set of strings for the lowest-pitched five courses, and then use 0.5mm monofilament fishing line as the high B4 string. There's a fair amount of stretch with the line, so there is a bit of a settling period initially, but soon enough that fishing line will hold tune.

    So, here's the stringing and tuning:

    Low C2 - uses the normal low E2 string, tuned down
    G2 - uses the normal A2 string, tuned down
    D3 - uses the normal D3 string, pitch unchanged
    A3 - uses the normal B3 string, shifted over one position and tuned down
    E4 - uses the normal E4 string, shifted over one position, pitch unchanged
    B4 - 0.5mm monofilament fishing line

    The pitches are lower for three strings, so there is less tension on the instrument as a whole.

    I have done this restringing on two different instruments. One was a good Spanish-built guitar, and the other a Yamaha Silent Guitar. I was pretty surprised at how well this worked on the acoustic guitar in terms of not losing volume. However, as I've probably posted elsewhere, the scale length is a bit challenging for melodic work.

    I got rid of my first Yamaha at some point, but wound up getting another. Technically, I imagine this means I've now successfully done this on THREE guitars, before Magma started selling their specialized set, and I've done it much less expensively than by using the over $25usd Magma price tag.

    For anyone who decides to explore putting these tested ideas into ideas into practice, good luck!
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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  18. #43
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    I appreciate you bumping my topic, but some of your suggestions come across as armchair theorizing, without actual experience in doing it.

    I instead want the topic to be available for those who want to know of concrete steps which worked in practice.

    Why convert the headstock when it already works? That's foolish. Ovations headstocks were designed to provide a straighter string path, eliminating any possible additional and unnecessary issues. They are also less problematic for string changes, as the whole tuning post is exposed.

    The volume is actually fine. Heavier strings will load an instrument top and burden more responsive tops. Overbuilt instruments might benefit, but that is not the case here.

    Regarding getting a full set of specialized strings for a nylon-strung 6-string for full fifths tuning, that is expensive and not necessary. Instead, buy a lifetime supply roll of 0.5mm monofilament fishing line.

    One can restring and retune a classical guitar to full fifth more easily than a steel string. Getting up to high B4 with a steel string at a 25.5" scale length requires a custom wire, so far only available from Octave4Plus.com . On a classical/nylon-strung guitar, one can use one set of strings for the lowest-pitched five courses, and then use 0.5mm monofilament fishing line as the high B4 string. There's a fair amount of stretch with the line, so there is a bit of a settling period initially, but soon enough that fishing line will hold tune.

    So, here's the stringing and tuning:

    Low C2 - uses the normal low E2 string, tuned down
    G2 - uses the normal A2 string, tuned down
    D3 - uses the normal D3 string, pitch unchanged
    A3 - uses the normal B3 string, shifted over one position and tuned down
    E4 - uses the normal E4 string, shifted over one position, pitch unchanged
    B4 - 0.5mm monofilament fishing line

    The pitches are lower for three strings, so there is less tension on the instrument as a whole.

    I have done this restringing on two different instruments. One was a good Spanish-built guitar, and the other a Yamaha Silent Guitar. I was pretty surprised at how well this worked on the acoustic guitar in terms of not losing volume. However, as I've probably posted elsewhere, the scale length is a bit challenging for melodic work.

    I got rid of my first Yamaha at some point, but wound up getting another. Technically, I imagine this means I've now successfully done this on THREE guitars, before Magma started selling their specialized set, and I've done it much less expensively than by using the over $25usd Magma price tag.

    For anyone who decides to explore putting these tested ideas into ideas into practice, good luck!
    Magma now makes the GCT-Cello set for less money.

  19. #44
    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Jul 2019
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    Magma GCT-Cello Strings are very special because the 3rd String is Micro-Flatwound.

  20. #45
    Registered User
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    Default Re: 12-String Conversion to Mandophone / Mandocello Plus!

    @s11141827, the magma GCT-CELLO set at stringsbymail shows it going to high B, but at the magma web site, it only goes to high G and they include a couple of spare strings. this suggests to me that it was supposed to go to high B, but does not quite make it there every time, there were too many unhappy customers and they changed the specs. price is still USD$25 in both places. "just strings" do not carry magma strings. if you use these strings on your guitar, I would like to know how long it takes you to take the high string to "high B", including the settling time, and for how long it lasts. also which/what guitar you use.

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