To add Tone Bars ... Or not to add them?

[Froglips]

My 'The Epiphone' F-Type Mando does not seem to have any Tone bars under the bridge when I look through the "F" holes.

Should I add some, should I leave it alone, does it matter either way?

Thank you for your time.

[Lefty Luthier]

Tone bars' purpose is to adjust the frequency response of the soundboard. If your soundboard tap tunes in the A#-G# range, it is fine as is. Otherwise I suggest adding them and trimming to the proper response. It is the rare Spruce soundboard that does not require tone bars but frequently those made from Yellow Cedar are fine without them.

[Hans]

Take a look through the end pin hole...you might find them.

[markishandsome]

Does this Epiphone even have a solid top? Are you sure it doesn;t have tone bars? You usually cant see them just by looking in the f-holes, you either need a mirror or to feel around with your fingers. If you like the way it sounds now, why mess with it? I doubt rebuilding it would be worth your time.

[Luke C]

I'm not sure about the F models, but my A style Epiphone has a single brace running straight up the middle between the f holes.

[Froglips]

Maybe I was mistaken, but I thought Mandolins would have a 'Tone Bar' like a Violin has just under the bridge. It is actually just a dowel. No?

[Brad Nicholas]

I believe you are thinking of a "soundpost". No, a mandolin does not have one. The tonebars in a mandolin are braces that run under the top from the area near the neckblock toward the tailblock.

[clarksavage]

I've got a new "The Loar" (choke, choke :-) LM 700-VS and it seems to have no tone bars. I've looked with a mirror and bright light, can't find anything in there but the top itself. It is a fine sounding mandolin, I'm very happy with it so far. Its my first foray into f-hole mandolins, I've always been an oval hole flattop guy (lots of bracing!)

Clark

[Bill Snyder]

Froglips if you add a soundpost you will undoubtedly be disappointed in the results. Of course it is easily reversed so if you feel like experimenting....

[MikeEdgerton]

All of the discussions about the Loar 700 series mandolins have noted the fact that it doesn't have tone bars.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Steve Etter]

Mike - I don't want to hijack the thread, but I want to ask some questions about the photo you posted and it seems the only good way to ask is to do it here...

It's pretty clear that that mandolin was taken apart for repair and the back was cut off, as best I can tell, by sawing through the sides just in from the back joint. Is this a common method for doing this and, if so, what if anything is done to make up for the difference in the body depth once the repair is complete?

I also can't tell by looking what method was used to join the neck to the head-block. If it were either a dovetail or Roger Siminoff's method, I would assume I would see evidence of it.

And finally, can you tell us what the problem with this guy was?

Thanks

Steve

[j. condino]

I know of one large domestic manufacturer that has hundreds of mandolins out working in the trenches that don't have any tonebars in them. It seems that the bean counters in the front office were riding one of the production workers pretty hard to move faster and work harder; his way to keep up the pace was to bypass everything to do with tonebars on the instrument....

They still were not satisfied with his pace and fired him, but the joke was on them. The mandolins still come back in on warranty regularly, a decade after he was fired.

j.

[MikeEdgerton]

...And finally, can you tell us what the problem with this guy was?

Steve, I'll be honest, I don't even know where the picture came from, I was simply looking for something that showed what a tonebar looked like.

[clarksavage]

Hi Mike - Heck, either I'm blind as a bat (and my wife would like someone else to accuse me of such a thing! ) - or my LM 700-VS has no tone bars. I've had my mirror inside there several times, lots of light, and even my reading glasses. My understanding is that the LM 600's do use tone bars (mostly?) and the LM 700's may come without. I can certainly check, more objectively, with Paul Hostetter, he has one of these 700's he's been using for a time.

Drop by with your own eyes if you drive down the coast of California, I serve pretty darned good coffee as well as give you free sound samples of my instruments.

Clark

[MikeEdgerton]

The 700 series The Loar mandolins do not have tonebars. It has been discussed before.

[clarksavage]

Ah, Mike, I must have completely misunderstood your message above a few. Apologies (I've had lots of people look at me with doubt about my honesty when I tell them there's no tone bars in the mandolin, I must've gotten real sensitive about it!)

To be in the range of the topic, I am just now carving and looking at fitting some tone bars on an A style (my first) I'm building. Wish me luck. I'll be tapping and listening

Clark

[mandomedic]

About cutting the back off with a saw and adding the depth when re-assembling. I've done that a lot on mandolins and depending on which saw you use, the depth you lose is about .022-.024 and not worth worrying about replacing. I have a Ikeda Dozuki saw with two blades, one is .018 and the other is .022 that I cut with. I suppose you could add a laminate of maple, walnut, holly or something, but I've never found it necessary to do that... Any one else? Kenc