The mandolin listings on ebay frequently include offerings under these trademarks, some of which look like they were quite pricey in their day (MOP and engraving galore). #Were these subsidiaries of larger companies? #Are any of them worth having?
The mandolin listings on ebay frequently include offerings under these trademarks, some of which look like they were quite pricey in their day (MOP and engraving galore). #Were these subsidiaries of larger companies? #Are any of them worth having?
Dean
May Flower mandolins were built by Harry J. Flower c.1910 and Andrew Groehsl pre 1890 in Chicago, Illinois. The company name was later changed to Stromberg-Voisinet in 1921 and which later became Kay. According to Tom Wheeler the mandolins were supervised by C.G. Stronberg who was a vice president.
I believe that Victorias were sold by B&J (Bugeleisen and Jacobson) out of New York. I am not sure if they actually built them, tho. My theory is that many of the New York made bowlbacks were made for other companies by Luigi Ricca's company who, according to Mike Holmes of Mugwumps, had over 200 employees at one time.
Any corrections, additions, Eugene?
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
I think that's about right. Victoria was a B&J brand and I believe they had some in-house production as well as commissioning their house brand from other shops. The Favilla Bros. shop is cited as producing a goodly chunk of B&J's instruments.
I thought Harry Flower was a businessman, not a luthier, and those Mayflower (May Flower) mandolins were made in Italy by Antone Valletti and imported to the U.S. I only have done some research as I did happen to find a bowl back of this ilk.
http://www.harpguitars.net/history/m...bel-garber.jpg
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted
Just getting ready to answer this but Jim just barely beat me....by 10 years and 4 months.
The Favs
2013 Jacobson Nautilus #23 Semper Concinentī
2007 Weber Custom Yellowstone
2003 Gibson A9
2013 Godin A8
2007 Martin 000-18 Norman Blake #62 of 134
2000 Heritage Millennium H-155
Sounds about right, Bobby. I stand corrected, tho it is interesting that I have never seen a mandolin labelled Antone Valletti coming out of Italy during that period. I have to look further into that.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Jim, I had no idea this thread was this old or even how I found it in the first place. I must have been dreaming.
Jim, I have read several of your posts and they are great. I appreciate not being flamed by anyone for posting conflicting opinion with an established and very credible MC member. Another great musicians forum.
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted
I am always willing to listen to fact-based arguments that may conflict with my own beliefs. We can all learn from others here. That is what makes this place so great. I am certainly not the be-all or end-all for all knowledge about mandolins and I hope I don't represent myself as such.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Don't worry about posting to an old thread either. My comment was just me goofing around as usual.
The Favs
2013 Jacobson Nautilus #23 Semper Concinentī
2007 Weber Custom Yellowstone
2003 Gibson A9
2013 Godin A8
2007 Martin 000-18 Norman Blake #62 of 134
2000 Heritage Millennium H-155
You are not the first one to do so. MC comes up first often on searches so people post and don't realize that the threads are old.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
The thing is, I've never seen a Mayflower mandolin that made me think it was actually made in Italy. (I haven't seen so many to imply that it couldn't be so....) Most details and hardware look much more US than Napoli or Sicilia. Not really sure what the Antone Valletti role was on these over time. Many Mayflowers I have seen look more Bostonoid than anything else.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
______________________
'05 Cuisinart Toaster
'93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
'12 Stetson Open Road
'06 Bialetti expresso maker
'14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig
The tricky thing about the MayFlower instruments is that there seems to at least two if not three distinct phases of the business. Jim's catalog suggests Valletti as the builder, but as Mick says the construction looks American. At the same time there is the Groeshl involvement when it would seem he was actively building instruments. I found mention in a Cadenza that Harry Flower had a music store and was well known in Chicago as a mandolin teacher, which would explain the manufacture of the mandolins, as the better known teachers/music store could aften get a run of instruments made with their own label. F.O.Gutman in Cincinatti did similar things in the 90s with his FOG brand instruments, none of which seem to have survived.
cheers
g
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com
The Mandolin Project on building mandolins
The Mandolin-a history
The Ukulele on building ukuleles
Father-in-law's Mayflower says Chi Town. Flower & Groehsl.
Seems Mr. Flower had to change his suppliers then. Mine clearly states Flower as US Agent - Naples, Italy. But you can't believe everything you read, and shouldn't.
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted
Bookmarks