Finding Different Woods

[BanjoPlayer]

Where do all you builders find your lumber for building mandolins? I have found a place locally to buy tiger stripe maple, but can't find anywhere that has ebony or sitka spruce? I expected ebony to be hard to find, but i didn't expect to struggle with spruce. I'm in north east MN, does anyone have any insight or advice? I'd like to avoid ordering over-priced wood off the internet from a instrument wood specialist.

[Craig Norconk]

I'm not afraid of using Junk wood, That piece of #### looking wood from a fallin down old barn may be Old growth pine, or that maple that some one cut down with a Burle may be a Gem if you take a chain saw to it and store the piece you cut in your Garage attic for a year. Curly maple for many backs can be had for a song if you dont mind multiple joints.
Here is a curly Maple back and 130 yr old white pine soundboard for my current project, The soundboard wood was Free and the color will be a light pecan red due to the age of the wood, the Maple came from a chunk from ebay ment for a plate or bowl spent 25$ and have enough for 4 backs.

[sunburst]

If you think it through, consider your time, consider the risk of "junk" showing up inside of pieces of wood and all that stuff, you'll find that wood from suppliers like Bruce Harvie (for one) of Orcas Island Tonewoods is not overpriced.
Bruce specializes in sitka (and engalmann and cedar) for instruments, meaning milled form split stock so run out is minimal. He also stands behind his wood and will replace anything that turns out to be unsatisfactory.

[j. condino]

Bruce is the man. Not only does he know his wood, but I've also seen him lay down the meanest vocals to the Theme From Gilligan's Island over the top of him playing the music to Stairway to Heaven and bring the house to a standing ovation at the local pub...if you get a chance, visit him on his home turf on Orcas Island. There is nothing like spending the afternoon looking through a thousand beautiful back sets and picking out your favorite three (or thirty) to bring home.

j.
www.condino.com

[David Houchens]

If you just want the experence of building, any wood will do. It may even sound good. And I've seen some funky wood in instruments before. Looked kinda cool at first. The cool wore off fast for me.
But if you want a nice instrument, I would spend a little money and buy some instrument quality wood. You don't have to buy the top grade. You can buy back, sides, neck and top wood for around $100 that will look and sound good and make you glad you went the extra mile. Just my penny and a half.

[oldwave maker]

Banjoplayer-
roundtrip airfare to Boston- $400
rental car to drive around the green mountains in vermont looking for that $2.23 bd/ft 1 piece loar back-$400
motels, gas, meals, ups shipping for the wood-$600
ordering it from Spruce- priceless!

On the other hand, you could take that $1400 and buy a couple of bunks of curly from north country lumber in Mellen Wisconsin and truck it home on your own trailer...
On the other other hand, you could religiously read the Star -Tribune obits for recently deceased violamakers, and chase down the widows...... last time I did that I got some really nice spruce and maple that the late John Rounds had bought from Spruce(of all people!) in '92........

[Rick Turner]

For ebony or rosewood, I'd go with Todd at Allied Lutherie or Chris at Luthiers Mercantile. Both are really great suppliers who really know instrument wood. Bruce Harvie, is, of course, the most fun of any spruce supplier on the planet.

[BanjoPlayer]

How is douglas fir for tops? My dad is remodeling a 100 year old house and he said he's throwing away a lot of good douglas fir 2x10s from stair cases and such that are supposedly in good shape.

[sunburst]

Grab 'em!
Fir makes good mandolin tops, though it is more prone to splitting than spruce. It's harder and heavier than spruce, in general, and usually ends up carved thinner.

In the town nearest me there is an old church that has been converted to a music venue. Every time I played there and went up or down the stairs I watched my feet step on one 12" wide piece of quartered Doug fir after another.

[Rick Turner]

I'd just like to revisit your comment: "over-priced wood off the internet from a instrument wood specialist." I think that is extremely unfair to the wood dealers I know who are selling considerably better than typical lumberyard timber. Perhaps you don't know all the criteria for selecting, splitting, and cutting good tone wood, but we're talking the top one percent of the top one percent of wood from trees here as being what the reputable dealers sell. Sure, if you really know what you're doing you might be able to find hidden treasures down at Home Boys Depot or the like, but I know what tone wood suppliers go through to select wood. I do a fair amount of resawing of billets for other builders and for my own use. I know how little of the wood that we all handle actually winds up in an instrument. Our standards are almost impossibly high, and that costs money. Also, bear in mind that nearly all of the grading is on appearance. If you are less concerned with that, contact one of the good suppliers and say you're interested in tone, not visuals. You'll be able to get great stiff wonderful sounding tops for cheap.

[oldwave maker]

Re: doug fir- Craig Owensby sent me these years ago, still saving them for that Seymour Butts autograph model- Indiana high school dougfir bleachers from a gym built in the early '50s, already stomp-tuned, possibly sat on briefly by sir bobby knight. Just waiting for the appropriate side/back/neck wood to fall from the sky or float down oldwave holler......

[sunburst]

Maybe you could come up with a piece of wood not only sat upon by Bobby Knight, but thrown across the gym by him too!

[thistle3585]

Bill,
Do you have the necessary CITES paperwork that allows for that material to be taken outside of Indiana? Generally anything that has to do with basketball in Indiana is protected through a state statute in some way or another, although we did secretly rejoice when Bobby signed with Texas tech and officially became someone elses problem.

[Steevarino]

Bill,

I would listen to Andrew if I were you. He lives up there in Indiana, you know, so he clearly knows what he's talking about.

About where to get wood, I have found that the more builders I get to know, the more options I have for wood choices. Many of us have hoarded wood over the years. I have bought, sold, and traded with other builders, many that frequent this place. Ain't that so, Andrew? Maybe put a request for tonewood in the "Wanted" section of the Classifieds here in the Cafe...?

Another place that is just overflowing with small and large amounts of tonewood is Ebay. Of course, it is Buyer Beware, but there are plenty of good sellers floating out on the bay. Search words like "Luthier", "Tonewoods", and "Cury Maple" and see what pops up.

[markishandsome]

"I'd like to avoid ordering over-priced wood off the internet from a instrument wood specialist. "

Expensive is not the same as overpriced. And unless you're getting top-of-the-line spruce, it's not particularly expensive. International Violin sells low-end tops for under $20 and even stew-mac (not known for being a bargain basement) sells nice top sets for $30. It's hard to beat that unless you find it somewhere for free or get it at home depot. I made an instrument with home depot wood once and it turned out great. Many valuable vintage instrument were made out of some pretty cheap looking wood by today's standards.

Places like woodcraft or rocklers sometimes have ebony turning blanks big enough to get a few mandolin fretboards out of, but they're not cheap. If you think you want to just make one or two instruments, you might be better off just buying the fretboard blank from some place like lmi. Or consider making the board out of a more readily available wood like walnut.

[thistle3585]

Steve is the man. Its just so damn entertaining to talk with him on the phone while he clamors about in his shop looking for stuff that he remembers getting from some defunct guitar company that moved their production overseas and he bought the balance of their inventory. I gotta believe his place is a much better tour than the big G plant.

[Geoff B]

Ebony is expensive, that seems to just be a fact. If you can slot your own board, you'll save some money. I was able to resaw a turning blank from Rockler and get 4 fretboards and 4 headplates for the same price as one slotted, radiused fretboard from Stew-mac. Not to bash Stew-Mac, just for comparison...

I also add my praise for Bruce Harvie up there in Orcas Island (for Spruce and maple, in my experience), fine wood and helpful, honest business.

[John Arnold]

Before I started cutting red spruce in 1990, nearly all my Engelmann came from the building supply lumberyards. I would buy 1 X 12, 2 X 12, and 2 X 10 lumber and resaw it. However, those were the 'good old days', since Engelmann is almost nonexistent in those places today. There is some German spruce in my local Lowes, but only in 2 X 4 and 2 X 6 sizes, which can usually yield some bracewood. But the clear lumber is so rare that it is almost a lost cause.
I do have some old, old 2 X 10 vertical grain Doug fir that should make some decent tops.
The fun thing about buying from a builder's supply is learning how to identify the various softwoods. Engelmann, lodgepole pine, and white fir are usually grouped together and stamped 'SPF', or just called 'whitewood'. It sometimes can be confusing to separate the species, at least until you learn all the tricks. Doug fir and western hemlock are also grouped together in some instances. Of course, the smell of Doug fir is unmistakable.
The German spruce I have bought is from one of the Klausner mills, all of which are identified with a mill number. Mill number 660 is in the heart of Germany. Mill 670 is in Lithuania.
I have some beautiful lodgepole pine guitar tops with a dimple figure. Try to find that at LMI or Stew Mac!
This is a Brazilian RW 0000 size guitar I built in 1990, using Engelmann from a 2 X 10: