vintage banjolin questions

**Jzauner** · Mar-10-2009, 3:05pm

I got a banjolin on craigslist a few weeks ago. The guy claimed it was from the early 1900s. It camewith all of the parts (minus one inlay). My plans are forcomplete restoration. I would like to know if you guys would know any information on it. The head is 11", but I need to know what crown to get as the one that was on it was destroyed. It had a mouse living in it for years. How do I tell what the crown of the head should be? There are two stamps that are on the back of the block running through the body. One says maybell, and the other says slingerland. The arm rest says "Lyon and healy makers, Chicago, USA.". Which is the real one? My guess would be the ones on the neck block. I am primarily a double bass player/luthier but I play a lot of Celtic gigs with mandolin, mandola, and banjo. Any help you would have would be greatly appreciated. I can post pictures if necessary. Thanks

**MikeEdgerton** · Mar-10-2009, 3:14pm

Maybell was a Slingerland brandname. Lyon & Healy was both a manufacturer and a distributor. The arm rest could have been added or it could be original. Can you post a picture?

You can also take a look at this Slingerland Page.

**mandroid** · Mar-10-2009, 4:20pm

If you are going to use a calfskin head , then crown height is the head installation while still wet.?

at least with an 11 " head and Remo plastic heads you have some more options

I have 10 1/8 and 10 3/4 head BM's and the choices are weak

width of the tension ring seems to have something to do with it

high crown and wider tension ring means the ring stays proud above the head/tonering .

with low bridges the downdraw pressure of the strings between the bridge and tailpiece is less ...

**Jzauner** · Mar-10-2009, 8:59pm

so you are saying i should get a high crown? excuse me for being naive about this topic, I have played banjos and mandolins but never worked on them until now. always stuck to my upright bass

**mandroid** · Mar-10-2009, 10:41pm

restoration would be a calfskin head , as they didn't have no Mylar back then.

that still have the little wire ring ?, that's the Flesh ring , the skin folds over that and the tension ring
pulls it down ..

Modernization would have a plastic head, how wide is the tension ring?

thats the one the hooks pull down to tighten the head.

pretty common problem, too, is the joint between the neck and rim-stick being weak or loose,

and needing to be made a solid joint again.

+

**allenhopkins** · Mar-11-2009, 12:19am

The "block running through the body" of a banjo is generally called the dowel stick. If it has a "Maybell" imprint on it, that's the manufacturer's label, and your banjo-mandolin was made by Slingerland. Slingerland and Lyon & Healy were both Chicago firms, and it wouldn't be at all unusual to have an easily-added part like an arm rest, made by another manufacturer and added either as original equipment, or subsequently.

Don't know where you're located, but it might make sense to visit a music store that has a good repair department, and get some hands-on expertise in fitting a new head. As Mandroid says above, if by "restore" you mean to make it "authentic" or close to what it was when it was new, a calfskin head would be preferable. If you want to avoid the humidity and temperature sensitivities associated with skin heads, a plastic (usually Mylar) head is more stable, and can be thinner, thus producing a brighter, less "thumpy" sound.

If the flesh hoop for the old head is still on the banjo, this can be your template for the new head, and also the frame around which a new skin head would be fitted. The bracket hooks of the banjo hook into the stretcher band; take this off, and there may be a thin metal hoop or ring under it. This would be the flesh hoop. I assume the resident rodent would have consumed all the organic material associated with the old head, but the flesh hoop might still be there.

You may have problems finding a pre-made plastic head that will fit your banjo, but if that's where you want to go, investigate the larger acoustic instrument parts suppliers. Again, a good professional repair person would be quite valuable.

Good luck with the instrument! If you get it restored and playable, be prepared for a torrent of abuse for the large majority of people who don't seem to care for the banjo-mandolin...

**Ken Berner** · Mar-11-2009, 11:49am

Mandolin banjos in playable condition tend to be quite loud and obnoxious. If you are "restoring" your instrument with playing in mind, you might at least, consider a Fiberskyn head, which will reduce some of the tonal sharpness. I have refurbished a few Fairbanks-Vegas which turned out pretty well, the last of which was a 1926 Style K. A mahogany bridge from Red Henry will really help tone down the brightness if that is your desire; it will be that of your listeners!

**lgc** · Mar-11-2009, 12:12pm

I will point out that some of the greatest Amnerican music, including a lot of the great black string bnads, was played on banjolin/melody banjo/mandolin banjos so obnoxious is definetly an opinion.
I think they sound wonderful. The louder the better.

**Ken Berner** · Mar-11-2009, 2:44pm

lgc, I'm not saying the instrument is not to be heard, just that it can be overbearing (a better word?). If you are playing in a large jam, the mandolin banjo will cut through any musical din that exists. They can still be heard quite well if played lightly and in a jam situation, I think you will find it much more acceptable that way!

**Paul Hostetter** · Mar-11-2009, 11:21pm

May Bell is usually two words.

The head is 11"

Are you sure? 99.44% of the Slingerlands I have ever seen were 10-3/4".

I need to know what crown to get as the one that was on it was destroyed. It had a mouse living in it for years. How do I tell what the crown of the head should be?

First, chase the mouse out. Measure the height of the tension hoop. Get a crown height that's slightly less than that. Unfortunately low, medium, and high are meaningless terms, as the actual height varies from brand to brand. Some low crowns are 1/4", others are 1/2". If you have a 10-3/4" hed, only a couple of suppliers will have a good head in stock: Elderly and Bob Smakula.

There are two stamps that are on the back of the block running through the body. One says maybell, and the other says slingerland. The arm rest says "Lyon and healy makers, Chicago, USA.". Which is the real one?

They're both real. I play a Washburn/Slingerland/Lyon and Healy that has all three marks on it. Many did. Just understand that it was made (like many brands were) by Slingerland. Mixing parts at the source is not a big deal.

I am primarily a double bass player/luthier but I play a lot of Celtic gigs with mandolin, mandola, and banjo. Any help you would have would be greatly appreciated. I can post pictures if necessary.

Photos would be great. Does it have a tone ring? What's the scale length?

**Red Henry** · Mar-16-2009, 12:21pm

A mahogany bridge can make a mandolin-banjo sound nice and "plunky," much more pleasant than most of them are now. This has been verified on quite a few different kinds of MBs.

Red
http://www.murphymethod.com/maplebridge.html

**pops1** · Mar-17-2009, 8:47am

I used to play a mandobanjo and i would put a piece of foam against the top in back between the top and the dowel stick. Takes some of the ring away and quiets it down some, also warms it up. If you are doing this i would look closely at the neck dowel stick glue joint and angle. Most have slipped over the years and you might consider regluing this joint.

**Jzauner** · Mar-18-2009, 8:00pm

Well I got it together, itwas a 10 3/4" head, I measured the outside on accident. Repaired the body, and it is strong. I have a concert in April I want to play it on so I just threw it together enough to play it and the action is killer high, so either the joint slipped, which I hope, or the neck is warped. I will try the joint, and if not, try compression fretting. I will let y'all know and post pics soon. It's not pretty yet, just playable. I made a bridge out of maple and rosewood which it sounds good now, but can't play it because of the neck.

**Paul Hostetter** · Mar-18-2009, 10:16pm

I was pretty sure it would be 10-3/4. Having wrassled a lot of these items over the years, I can say with some certainty that the neck needs to be remounted: remount the dowelstick, refit the heel to the pot. Shims will not do it. No joint slipped, it's just how it's gotten to be after all these years. Likewise, the neck is probably not bowed. Mandolin banjos are under-engineered for the string load, though a Slingerland rim is pretty substantial.

When you get around to remounting the neck properly, I'll show you a really nice compensated bridge for mandolins which I've had great success with over the years.

Where do you live? You may find the best tone is a skin head, rather than a plastic one.