Personal observations over several decades of live work

[Tim Bowen]

The single bullet theory.

I'm just a fan of roots music and all music that sounds good to me, and I'm a fan of making music that I love as a means of paying my bills in the process. I just want to find a way to sound decent and project my music, in a way that doesn't logistically and practically bamboozle me. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.

I had some downtime after the line check for my job on Saturday, so I wandered down the street and heard the sound check for a local act. This was an act that had established itself several years back as a bluegrass outfit, but was going in a somewhat different direction as to instrumentation - Martin acousic guitar, vocal, small trap set, doghouse upright bass. These guys brought a single SM57 mic to their gig, and that's it. Sound check was awful... too many frequencies to deal with in the "purist" respect of a single mic. These guys are accomplished musicians, but with all due respect, are sonically clueless. I remember thinking, "Man, if I could afford a Martin that sounded THAT good, I'd certainly want someone to actually hear it". I asked some folks (laymen) that came to my show after hanging at the other venue, how the sound was - "hideous, nothing but bass" was the consensus.

I also recently spoke with a full time working musician and owner of a live sound reinforcement company that has survived as such for nearly three decades, and he's provided sound for virtually every type of musical genre under the sun during this period. The guy's a perfectionist, and his gear reflects as much. I asked him what his biggest challenge as a sound tech has been over the course of his career. His answer: "Bluegrass musicians. They show up with virtually nothing and expect you to make them sound like Jesus."

I've split bills with a ridiculously talented solo autoharp stylist at festivals for the last 6-7 years. The guy owns dozens of autoharps, and his arrangements are mesmerizing. Nonetheless, he gripes about the live sound after every set I've heard him do. He uses a single low output lapel mic, and that's it. He's in his 60's, has been performing for 40+ years. This is all he does, he tours around and plays autoharp and sings for a living. Awesome! Except that he's never happy with his sound. I'm thinking, "ever heard of a preamp?".

I hear folks gripe about not having a handle on output and EQ in the live setting, wigging on the quirks of their clip-on tuners, you name it. If you're Del McCoury, Steve Earle, Gillian Welch, or Jerry Douglas, chances are pretty good that excellent sound reinforcement will be provided for you, as you've earned it. However, chances are equally good that if you're one of these guys, you've learned the ins and outs of what works and what doesn't through the school of hard knocks.

Being a working player means understanding what works and what doesn't. If you're working pubs, festivals, clubs, bars, live venues of any sort - it's entirely irresponsible and cartoonishly naive' to expect anyone other than yourself to provide the tools of the trade. I could not imagine showing up for a paying job sans quality powered mixer, speakers, mic's of choice, high headroom preamp and booster, ambient effectors of choice, in-line tuner, extra cables, extra batteries, etc., etc. If I don't need them, cool, they can stay in the vehicle. When I do need them, they're there.


Peace, love, and understanding. Happy New Year!

TB

[Fretbear]

Good post; I was watching something on TV where Bruce Springsteen was playing for some Obama event, and I was dismayed to hear his old Gibson flattop sound like it was strung with angry rubber bands, which is what those c##p guitar piezo's sound like to me.
Makes you wonder what the poor, unsuccessful people have to work with.

[Geiss]

I think it's all about balance.
Some people regard it as a badge of honor that they don't have or need extra sound gear or techie toys. Others seem more enamored with the technology than the musicianship and buy more than necessary or update more frequently than reasonable.

I agree that ultimately the musicians needs to take responsibility for having at least some baseline proficiency in setting up sound or troubleshooting when things don't sound right.

I have a friend who plays out and changes his guitar strings like every 6 months and regards spending any money on a qualified luthier (except on an emergency basis) as a waste of money. His electronics are way out of date (which in an of itself is OK) but sound mediocre at best. The guitar plays OK but with effort beyond what most good players would expect nowadays.

Yet, he enjoys the gigs and somehow it all gets done.
Not my way of approaching things but it's all a matter of style.....

Dave

[Jim]

Alot of players don't get the concept of maintaining a particular distance from a microphone. You'll sound check them and they're about a foot from the mic and then on the show they move away from it or can't hear themselves when everyone is playing and get righton top of the mic. You can fix the latter riding the fader but no way you'll hear them if the walk away from the mic. For all the piezo p/u are not many peoples favorite sound at least the poor sound man has a signal to work with in a noisy environment.

[jim_n_virginia]

The air must be awful thin way up there on that high horse!

Way down here where us "poor unsuccessful" musicians are we just use what we have and whatever sound experience we have (which is not much) to get by.

The outcome is still the same... we still get to make some music and we can always find someone who'll want to listen!

[UnityGain]

Ever seen Railroad Earth live? Those guys know what it takes to get a really, really great live sound setup. Each member has their own rack, with preamps, eqs, effects, etc... They have it down for sure.

Check out the pic below, you can see that the mandolin player, banjo player and fiddler each have their own racks, and I think the bass player does too, but you cant see it. Avalon preamps and pendulums and whatnot. Boys know thier electronics.

Edit: Oh yeah, whats up with singers who dont own their own microphone??? Come on! You dont even play an instruemnt, you dont have to buy ANYTHING! Why dont you have a decent vocal mic of your own???

[Mike Snyder]

Years ago I booked bands, MCd, and rounded up my own band for a VERY small, one day free Bgrass festival at a State Park here in Kansas. The first thing I did when I took this responsibility, was to hire out the sound to a fellow who had a neo gospel group. He had good equipment, and busted his butt to provide good sound. This was outside on a wonky little stage, and all was good. He even made cassettes of each act for a very nominal fee. One year, when I went to the folks who footed the bill, they were very proud to tell me that they had aquired a sound system, and that we no longer would have to hire out the sound. It was all mismatched junk that was used and abused. That was the end of good sound at the event, and I lost the interest of some performers. (Who were basically performing for free) The folks who volunteered to run the sound tried real hard.
It was heartbreking, but, as a free festival, there was nothing I could do. I went back to college shortly after, and the event fizzled out. Good sound is SO important to a musical event.

[John Flynn]

I have suffered through versions of all the tribulations described above when playing big gigs, but I can't help thinking how ironic it is that people have to use so much expensive and complicated electronic technology to "get a good acoustic sound." What a contradiction! As a non-professional, I have the great luxury of just generally refusing to play any place I have to plug in or be close-miked. If I absolutely have to have personal sound reinforcement, I see it as a necessary evil and either 1) Make it the venue's problem, and/or 2) Just go with a pizeo and preamp/DI and use as little reinforcement gain as I can get away with to be heard well. The more I perform, the more I am getting to be "puristic" that acoustic music should be heard acoustically.

[allenhopkins]

I tread (gingerly) both sides of this line. I have no sound tech training, but have acquired several sound systems of different sizes, and generally provide sound reinforcement for the different groups in which i play. I'm sure the result is "decent if not brilliant," especially since I'm setting up the equipment and trying to ride herd on it while playing and singing as well.

One thing that has occurred to me, is that people unfamiliar with a musical style, often set up and balance the sound badly for that style. I recall acting as a "volunteer adviser" to the sound tech at a performance by Walt Michael's band, where I persuaded him not to have the guitar and bass overpower the hammered dulcimer and fiddle.

My overall "take" is, if your band is bringing its own sound, make sure it's adequate and designed for your particular needs. Part-time bands that play a few times a year usually can't afford "state of the art," but there are quite a few not-too-pricey systems that can provide decent amplification. In my experience, good microphones are the component most often neglected.

If you're using "house sound," spend a bit of quality time with the sound tech and get some feel for his approach and the system's characteristics. When I opened for Bromberg (name dropper!) a couple years ago, as a solo, I was lucky to get a five-minute sound check, but it was enough to give me some idea of what I needed to do to sound acceptable.

[TomTyrrell]

I'm always amazed at how many bands don't have an answer to "What do you need for sound?" If the band doesn't know who does?

[Pen]

LOL - good points from the OP. By far, it's the most overlooked thing thing by small time groups. It does cost money to get the equipment needed to sound good. Yet another contributer to musicians not making any money.

After 4 years of performing with my group, 2008 is the first where we've made more than we've spent on the band. Well, technically, my money earned went into a new Martin guitar - so, I guess I'm still in the Red!

But yeah, learning sound is hard. What you hear on stage is not what the audiance hears. We are constantly improving our setup and sound.

My advice to someone trying to work out their sound. Find a good sound man to sit through a gig - even if they don't run your sound. Then, take their advice. It will save you $$ and time getting it right.

[Jim Nollman]

interesting thread. In theory, I do believe that 4 or 5 people standing around a single mike can work. You can hear some of the great success stories of this difficult method if you listen to old jazz. But those players in the 1920s also had an arranger as a member of the group, and I have heard stories that the best arrangers not only focused on creating complicated parts, but also rehearsed the band members about when to step back from the mike, how far to step back, and when to step forward.

Your usual semi-pro bluegrass band does much the same thing, but without the field officer who keeps them marching in step with the microphone. And because bluegrass music quickly turns into an exercise of furious fingers, it is much too easy to forget that, to the audience, each musicians spacial relationship to the microphone is as important as how fast the notes fly by. Stand too far away and they don't fly by at all.

I have solved this problem in my own case, by adding a little acoustic amp with a built-in tweeter, a schertler, and most important, a volume pedal. If it sounds like a lot, I don't agree, because i can't play if i can't hear myself. Once i established that setup in one of my bands, the rest of the people in the band including an acoustic purist who wasn't being heard at any distance, soon got themselves a similar setup. Now our performances are totally about whether we play the right notes in tune. That's another issue.

There's also the bar band version of sound reinforcement. Over the course of an evening, (usually) the guitar player starts turning up his volume as the audience starts shouting to be heard over the band. It all goes up from there. By the second intermission, whatever suitable sound check they had figured out before the crowd arrived, has fled along with all the people who truly do value their hearing.

As i say, I have started using a volume pedal. But for that work, you also need a savvy audience member, or a sound person who really understands the mix. Perhaps ironically, I usually trust an audience member standing at the back of the hall, more than i do a sound person who may not have a clue about the music we're playing.

One thing i would question is the statement that the big names don't have to contend with this problem. I have attended the last 2 winters of Wintergrass, which is as big as gets for bluegrass in my part of the country. They have these wonderful concerts in an old church, which has great acoustics but takes some real finesse to optimize. Both times, I wanted to go ask the sound person to step aside, because he was ruining the mix of the biggest names by boosting the star's volume, and decreasing the rest of the band too a distant piddle.

[Steve Ostrander]

We play small venues. If you have 50 people in a small room, they don't even have to be talking loud before they will overpower a trio playing acoustic unplugged. So we have to schlepp our PA so we can be heard, and hear ourselves.

The best way to mic a mando, IMHO. is with a good mic. But that requires that I position myself correctly. Then I can't get into the grrove, wander about stage, or go make a minor adjustment on the PA. So I sacrifice and use a piezo to gain the mobility.

[mandolirius]

I've been a player, a booker, a soundperson and everything else down to the guy who sweeps up the place after the gig is over, so I've seen a lot. There were a lot of points in the OP that rang true for me. But one that didn't was this:

<I could not imagine showing up for a paying job sans quality powered mixer, speakers, mic's of choice, high headroom preamp and booster, ambient effectors of choice, in-line tuner, extra cables, extra batteries, etc., etc.>

It's been my observation that, for venues that regularly feature music, most places have a sound system. Granted, it may be c##p but musicians these days usually use the house gear. Obviously it makes things easier for the players and the venues prefer it too, as it's less disruptive to have a permanently installed system than having stuff schlepped in and out all the time. Of course there is still amps, drum sets and so on that have to be brought in but usually not an entire sound system. I'm talking about Canada, where there seems to be fewer casual sorts of gigs than in the U.S. where there are more of those Shakey's Pizza type of places that you can play at for maybe tips, a meal and possibly a bit of cash but don't expect there to be any sound gear. I once played a gig another band member had booked in Washington state. He'd checked that there was sound but the system turned out to be the ###### old mic and two channel mixer they used to announce what food order was ready. I also cringed a bit at:

<If I don't need them, cool, they can stay in the vehicle. When I do need them, they're there.>

Isn't that how a lot of stuff gets ripped off?

[Elliot Luber]

I've edited several sound reinforcement magazines in my day, and there is a long-raging battle over close miking or group miking. All too often the deciding factor is a combination of ignorance and lack of funds. Among people who truly know what they're doing sonically, there are the classical purists who want the live acoustic sound in a quiet room and recognize that each microphone added doubles the noise floor. On the other side are rock musicians who must try to get instrument separation in a cavernous often highly reflective concrete arena filled with screaming fans. They need to closely mike their instruments to obtain any sembalance of a mix. Live Bluegrass musicians are caught in the middle playing acoustic instruments often in a loud bar setting. Here purist vs. populist values come directly into conflict. Mandolinists in particular, trying to be heard against drums and b*njo, must get above the din... and din speaks directly to the lack of separation.

[mandocaster]

IMO,you should know how to get your instrument to sound good in a variety of situations. If you only ever play with the same group of people in the same kind of venue playing the same kind of music and you are satisfied with the sound, then great...
...on the other hand if you have been frustrated because your lousy amplified sound is detracting from both your performance and the audiences perception of it, you need to put on your big boy (or girl) pants and figure out how to make it work. I got a schertler dyn-m a few years ago. It is not as pristine as a good mic on a quiet stage. I get to play with drummers if I want to, though. Or sit in with country bands. Or play jazz along with an electric key board and a saxaphone player. I'm not saying I am particularly good at any of those things, but it sure is fun to try.

[Tim Bowen]

Great points all around, and thanks for taking my comments in the sincere spirit in which they were offered.


I've heard acts gather around a single mic, lean in and out, and sound like a million bucks on many occasions. In each case, several points were true:

* The guys knew what they were doing.

* Somebody (or somebodies) understood mics and instrument frequency ranges.

* Invariably, the setting was that of a dedicated listening environment; most often fairly intimate, but sometimes larger scale.


I've heard acts use the single mic approach at large outdoor festivals. It *can* work, and it has, many times - with a good system, and good live techs that are familiar with the approach and the musical genres that embrace it, and that are sympathetic to the cause. However, it's totally a crapshoot to expect all these variables to be in a positive place as they coincide with one's musical world. More often than not, what I've heard in this regard has been less than what the act had intended to project.

It's nuts to take this approach into a crowded and/or noisy bar, pub, or nightclub - typically, this is not a "listening environment"; it can be, but it's not going to be by default. The band that I mentioned in my initial post - they're great guys and they know how to play, and I dig their material. I'd truly like to support them on nights I'm not working, but sonically, they just plain sound bad. They don't go to the effort of understanding the rooms that they play, nor how gear interacts with such, and subsequently, all that talent misses the intended target (an audience), which breaks my heart.

For the record, I love bluegrass music, traditional and otherwise. I don't play lots of tunes from the standard repetoire, but I certainly dig them. When I played the old chestnut "Shady Grove" on mandolin at gigs over the weekend, my signal was routed through a Radial active DI and an Xotic effects RC booster (among other things), to a Mackie powered mixer - simply because I know that I can make this gear translate my efforts across a variety of venues.

[Tim Bowen]

I've been a player, a booker, a soundperson and everything else down to the guy who sweeps up the place after the gig is over, so I've seen a lot. There were a lot of points in the OP that rang true for me. But one that didn't was this:

<I could not imagine showing up for a paying job sans quality powered mixer, speakers, mic's of choice, high headroom preamp and booster, ambient effectors of choice, in-line tuner, extra cables, extra batteries, etc., etc.>

It's been my observation that, for venues that regularly feature music, most places have a sound system. Granted, it may be c##p but musicians these days usually use the house gear. Obviously it makes things easier for the players and the venues prefer it too, as it's less disruptive to have a permanently installed system than having stuff schlepped in and out all the time. Of course there is still amps, drum sets and so on that have to be brought in but usually not an entire sound system. I'm talking about Canada, where there seems to be fewer casual sorts of gigs than in the U.S. where there are more of those Shakey's Pizza type of places that you can play at for maybe tips, a meal and possibly a bit of cash but don't expect there to be any sound gear. I once played a gig another band member had booked in Washington state. He'd checked that there was sound but the system turned out to be the ###### old mic and two channel mixer they used to announce what food order was ready. I also cringed a bit at:

<If I don't need them, cool, they can stay in the vehicle. When I do need them, they're there.>

Isn't that how a lot of stuff gets ripped off?

Like yourself and many others here, I've been at this for quite some time, and have seen most every imaginable scenario. I'd say that demographics are definitely a factor, as is to what degree playing music figures into your income.

Music is all I do for a living, and it's taken me decades to strike a balance between playing music that I actually want to play, and finding a way to do so in a way that allows me to support my wife and I, pay the house and car notes, keep the lights on, and keep food in the fridge and pantry. Hence, I've noted scenarios that work for me and those that don't.

While I enjoy the occasional and inevitable diversion, here's what works for me:

* If I supply sound reinforcement, 'between-sets' music, and am the only working act on the bill, I can control the situation, make good money, have a blast, and deal with less peripheral BS.

* I have a bottom line dollar figure in mind that comes into play before I'll leave the house with my gear, and all math (time, travel, expenses) figure in here. This is not an elitist point of view, this is simply business.

* There are venues that I enjoy working, and those that I don't. Some types of venues, such as dedicated sports bars, I've sworn off. Over the course of 3-4 shows at a venue, I can determine whether or not it's a good fit for me financially and musically.


I've worked loads of rooms that have "in-house" PA. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it sucks. As for making a living playing music, my experience has been that working dedicated high profile acoustic listening rooms in the southeastern United States has basically paid me in the form of several peanuts. I've enjoyed playing those rooms, but these pursuits don't necessarily figure into my personal fiscal plan.

Sonically, I hate second-guessing systems and techs, but as a chameleon, it certainly becomes necessary to do so at times. If I arrive at a venue and see frayed wires, questionable cables and routing, my response is "Do you mind if I bring in my system? It's small, portable, won't take much time." And I've dealt with more than plenty of "techs" that show up fifteen minutes before downbeat, all bohemian, nappy-headed, and hungover, not to mention the guy that blasts hiphop drum n' bass dance sets in between the live sets... oh yeah, that guy is totally going to get what I'm attempting to project, he's looking out after the best interests of the musicians, I think I'll trust his experience and expertise.

Good points on the 'theft' thing. As much as I need to lug gear around, I try to call it as to the situation at hand. The only gear that I've had stolen from me over the last thirty plus years has been from nightclubs and apartments. If I'm playing a venue with multiple acts, I'm going to make it my mission statement to watch my goodies like the proverbial hawk. *Knocks on wooden head* - to date, I've never had anything stolen from a vehicle. Obviously, I'm not going to leave gleaming goodies in the vehicle as parked in a questionable area, metropolitan or otherwise.

[mandolirius]

<Like yourself and many others here, I've been at this for quite some time, and have seen most every imaginable scenario. I'd say that demographics are definitely a factor, as is to what degree playing music figures into your income.

Music is all I do for a living, and it's taken me decades to strike a balance between playing music that I actually want to play, and finding a way to do so in a way that allows me to support my wife and I, pay the house and car notes, keep the lights on, and keep food in the fridge and pantry. Hence, I've noted scenarios that work for me and those that don't.>

Tim, sounds like one thing you don't believe in is making excuses and there I'm in complete agreement.

[earthsave]

A single SM57 isnt really supposed to work for a group.

When I first saw the Dickel Brothers about 10 years ago now I guess, they used a single mic but I couldnt tell you what type. They play sorta old timey gang band style. Fiddle lead the melody and guitar, mandolin, banjo, bass, washboard all mixed in well. It was a small room. Having balanced instruments (equal in volume) helps with a single mic.

We always carry our AT/4033 and get some strange looks and harumphs from sound techs. Not sure if it is because it's hard to get the volume of single mics with it or they dont get to work as many slides/knobs to balance the sound?

For bars, parties, and outdoor events where we are either on our own, we always bring our system.

[Ted Eschliman]

I've had the good fortune of having a few custom built instruments made for me. Since most of my performing is plugged-in, I've thought it important to build an instrument around the pick-up, rather than think of of a pick-up as a simple after-market product. This might involve some acoustic compromises in construction, but these decisions made early in the building process pay back in spades in peace of mind and no-fuss plug-and-play set-ups.

Can't speak for the rest of the ensemble, but at least I feel like I have some degree of control over the output of my instrument, and can concentrate more on playing than being a sound tech. "Amplified acoustic purity" can be a bit oxymoronical, but you can still hedge your bet with a healthy dose of premeditation and compromise.

[JeffD]

I sometimes think there should be a section on the forum entitled something like "working musicians" or "professional performance" or something. A repository for threads like this.

Here's the thing - in a professional situation a sound tech needs to be on the team. Somebody, if not the musician or a band member, somebody needs to know this stuff.

Tim, I 100% agree that, were I to play professionally, it would be my responsibility to either become an expert (not likely), or to hire one, or acquire one in some way, because that is what a professional does. The pro is responsable for all aspects of the performance - sound especially, (but also including promotion, copyright and branding laws, glad handing promotors, dealing with agents, arguing with venues and studeos, contracts and contract law, hiring and firing, and the business of business).

Thing is.... I find microphones and amplifiers and sound technology to be gigantically boring to learn, and a hindrance to the enjoyment of playing. It pulls me away from everything the music means to me, the back porch pickin', the interaction with other musicians, the deep roots, the way a tune hinges on a note or chord or phrase, the way a good tune seems to go with corn bread and chili, the way eight strings and some hunks of wood can evokes a mood or a feeling or a memory, and the way I am participating in an endeavor as old and traditional as the blue hills in the distance, and as deeply human as language itself.

Everything that awes me about participatory music is 180 degrees out of phase with wires and microphones, digital signal processing, knob tweeking, pre-amps, pre-volts, and pre-ohms.

And that is why I would not want to be a professional musician. (OK, that and because I have found other ways of make my living that are, in other ways, fullfilling.)

So Tim, we agree, but it saddens me.

[Andy Miller]

Over the years I have played a thousand or two gigs, mostly with an electric band, in all manner of venues from the "Shakey's Pizza" mentioned above to large festival stages with excellent pro sound crews. I stopped doing the electric thing a few years back and didn't play out for a long while. Then I started putting together what's become my little acoustic trio with my wife, and really liked the idea of using a small but mighty PA with a single condenser mic. Heh. As described in several posts above - that works when it works. I love it when I can use those LD condensers, but I usually use two up front instead of one, I guess I'm just not that good a choreographer. I have also broken down and bought all the dynamic mics, pickups, DI's, preamps I need to do it that way 'round when that's the way it needs to be done. So much for simplicity - I'm doomed to taking a carload of gear if I want to be assured of a chance at good sound. But it's worth it when things sound good, I'm comfortable hearing myself and the others, and the audience's response indicates that they can hear what we're up to.

[mandopete]

Tim - thanks for these thoughtful posts, great reading!

[Capt. E]

When I saw the Punch Brothers back in October, they all had a wireless mike setup that enabled them to wander around etc and the sound was consistent, balanced and of excellent quality. Not sure who did their sound (The Cactus Cafe at the University of Texas). I have to add that the Cactus is a small venue, perfect for acoustic acts. Anyone know how the Punch Bros do their sound?