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Thread: Brentrup F5R

  1. #1

    Default Brentrup F5R

    Here's the F5R finished a few days ago. To recap, the ff holes are pushed forward, ribs are tapered, and there are some internal mods.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Couple more...sorry 'bout some of the fuzzy pix, just tooo early on a Saturday I guess.
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  3. #3
    Registered User Bigtuna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Great work, it looks amazing! What advantages do think the forward placed ff holes have vs. the standard placement? My first guess would be a little more low end on G and D strings. Either way I've got to get one!
    "They say the ocean, she is a woman, who waits for her man to come home." M.Houser

  4. #4
    Moderator JEStanek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Congratulations on finishing the experiment, Hans. How does this mandolin compare with a similar materials mandolin in a standard build shape? Do the tapered ribs give it a bowl-esque sound or does this one sound like Brentrup but look a little funky? It has your look all over it, which is a good thing!

    Jamie
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Nice work Hans, another great looking mandolin mod.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hans,I'm available to test drive the F5R. I will need a couple months to be able to render my assessment.

    Glad to help.

  7. #7
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Are there archtop guitars with a similar configuration of ribs? Would this design be a good idea for oval hole A4 mandolins? Nothing but more questions on this design Hans. Sound clips probably in high demand. Love to hear it. Great work.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Doug, to my knowledge, no one has done it on archtops period. 'Spose someday I'll try it on an oval. Wouldn't be too hard for you to come over and try it for yourself ya know...
    Thanks guys, here's the skinny on the sound.
    I don't think the ff holes made much difference by having been moved forward. I think it's mostly the ribs and interior changes. I intend to build another with the ff holes in the proper place for those that find this one offensive.
    I'll probably accentuate the slope of the ribs more next time.
    Jamie, it's too soon to make any comments about a bigger sound of the instrument because it is so new, but the V6 has tapered ribs and has a really woofy sound. It is Italian though and more broken in with bronze strings rather than stainless. I may be able to make a better comparison in a few weeks as to that area of describing the tone.
    What I can say so far is that it is VERY resonant, alive sounding, almost like your head is inside the instrument. It's very clean, and notes are distinct, sustain excellent. It's still fundamental like red spruce. I wouldn't say it was quite "hollow" sounding like an old instrument, but has some flavor of that in the form of clarity. When the strings get broken in a bit (that'll take a time with SS), we'll see how it sounds.

  9. #9
    Registered User Ken Olmstead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    "Will work for Brentup!"

    I love how Hans is continually innovating and pushing forward! She's a beaut!!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/tenorbanjoguy

    "Gettin' by" with the imports!

  10. #10
    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hans,

    will you be bringing this one, and maybe some others of your new designs, to Wintergrass this year?
    Explore some of my published music here

    óJim

    BRW 3-point #65 (2009)
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    Portuguese fado cittern (1965)

  11. #11
    Registered User Ken Olmstead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hans,

    I think you have effectively taken the engine from this car (worlds fastest production car)...
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    http://www.youtube.com/user/tenorbanjoguy

    "Gettin' by" with the imports!

  12. #12
    Registered User Ken Olmstead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    ....and installed it into this one! (1923 Rolls Silver Ghost) It totally makes sense that you had to modify the exhaust system to me!

    Brilliant!
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    http://www.youtube.com/user/tenorbanjoguy

    "Gettin' by" with the imports!

  13. #13
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Yet another wonderful Mandolin Hans,what more is there to say ?,
    Saska
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Beautiful mandolin, I like the ff hole placement idea. Would love to hear and/or try it.

  15. #15
    Registered User Kerry Krishna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hans, what is the story behind the forward F holes. Maybe you could explain?...Kerry K

  16. #16
    Registered User Fred Keller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    I have had the pleasure of subjecting that mando to my playing for an hour or two a few weeks ago. Jealous?

    While writing about tone has been described as "dancing about architecture," I'd say that this beauty has an out-of-the-box old, broken-in sound to it. I remember thinking about how deep and throaty and "relaxed" it sounded, especially across the mids and lows. It was a treat to pick on, that's for dang sure.
    Lost on the trails of The Deep North

  17. #17
    Registered User Ken Olmstead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    I hope Hans will correct me if I am wrong but this mandolin has many of the ideas under the hood as his V6 Eclipse. See this thread:

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...t=tapered+ribs

    Fred - I am GREEN with envy!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/tenorbanjoguy

    "Gettin' by" with the imports!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hans, is the internal space bigger or smaller than your usual f5 with the sides tapering?
    Does it get wider at the tailpiece than a reg'lar F5, or did you start at the heel with your typical dimension and taper towards the scroll, resulting in a smaller internal space?

  19. #19
    Kelley Mandolins Skip Kelley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hans, Very beautiful work as always! I have to hand it to you guys that can come up with such innovative ideas!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Michael, I am looking for someone to test drive this puppy...
    Jim, unfortunately I won't be going to Wintergrass this year. Wish I could, but it just gets too expensive.
    Ken, nice analogy! V6 under the hood indeed.
    Kerry, the original idea behind moving the ff holes forward was to have more top area vibrating similar to an oval hole without having to cut into the grain in the center of the top. I am still not sure exactly how much it has contributed to the total change, but I have to say that so far on two instruments the combination of innovations has made quite a difference in boosting the tone.
    Arthur, I have tried to maintain the internal volume of the F5, the rib height around the headblock is less than a Loar, and the height around the tailpiece is more. Might be interesting to play with volumes though...hmmm!
    Skip, I'm always striving to make a better instrument. I think that we builders have all taken the standard formula (F5) about as far as it can be pushed. I have a feeling that the instruments being made now will sound much better than Loars in 90 years.
    It's time to break out of the mould and push the envelope even farther...it's all about tone.
    Last edited by Hans; Dec-29-2008 at 9:09am.

  21. #21
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hello Hans,

    Is there at least a partial element of inspiration from the Loar A5 in this effort?
    Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
    www.f5journal.com

  22. #22
    Registered User Ken Olmstead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    I heard this mandolin over the phone and all I can say is WOW! It was crystal clear yet had a full voice. The volume was staggering and the notes lost no volume or sustain up the neck. Chop was solid with lots of bark! Sustain was impressive, it just rang and rang!!

    more to come on another thread concerning the results of that call...
    http://www.youtube.com/user/tenorbanjoguy

    "Gettin' by" with the imports!

  23. #23

    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    my immediate thought on seeing the forward f holes is this.. maybe if the f holes were contoured to match the outside line of the body and the bottom hole on the f hole inverted to the same side as the top hole.a bit like a french curve.. you can tell me to get lost but that is what struck me when i first saw it.. push the envelope.. great mando !!
    mandolinosoarus rex

  24. #24

    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hans stopped by for lunch yesterday and brought along the F5R. As he stated it's very resonant and alive has a nice woody chop. It had me wishing I had my own pick, a broken in set of J-74's and a few weeks to play on it. I would love to hear this mandolin 5 years from now especially when I think of how my personal Brentrup has matured over the years.

    Nice work Hans!
    Bill James
    www.axinc.net

  25. #25

    Default Re: Brentrup F5R

    Hi Darryl,

    It's possible that the A5 entered into my thoughts when I originally revamped the V6, but I think I was influenced mostly by my friend's National guitar. Just looking at that large resonating cone with the ff holes up at the top shoulders gave me the idea that trying to get a rounder area of vibration with the bridge in the middle might help tone. Really hard to say exactly what contributes what to the tone as I generally don't think in reductionist terms. All I know is that I will continue to develop the instruments along these lines as there seems to be an advantage.
    Ken, I'll get started on that Kay copy soon...
    Frank, I didn't want to push a traditional instrument too far...
    Bill it was good to see ya again, sit down for a little lunch, and talk about other things besides mandolins.
    BTW, Bill has some new pickguard tortoise thats just beautiful. Can't wait to make a scalloped pickguard with it!

    Might have some yer-toob clips up soon.

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