Roy Smeck Mandolin??

[jeff mercer]

According to Gruhn, specs of the Stage Deluxe & the Radio Grande often overlap, although he doesn't go into what those overlaps are..
Mid last year I went to see Jackson Browne..well, to be honest, I went to see David Lindley playing with Jackson Browne ..Jackson had around 13 acoustic guitars on stands behind him, a good 8 or 9 of which were vintage Smecks, with a re-issue or two thrown in. Ry Cooder loves 'em as well..

Don't know if this has already been touched on, but apparently toward the end of his career, Mr. Smeck regretted signing the endorsement deal with the Harmony Co., as he felt he was then legally bound to perform with "inferior instruments". He would've preferred to play his D'Angelico's, Martins etc. ( as I guess you would ! )

Having said that, though, the Vita ukuleles really do play & sound fantastic, and I'm chasing one down at the moment..wish me luck !
Very Merry Xmas, all !

[Jim Garber]

As I mentioned before, I took lessons with Roy for a few years in the 1980s. The only Harmonybi ever saw him play was an archtop electric which he played acoustically. He played a Martin 3K uke, a couple of B&D banjos and a Gibson steel.

I was able to buy the steel at his estate auction a few years after he died. I still can't quite figure out which model it was since it was "customized" with some non-original parts. The Gibson inlay was obliterated a la WSM, so there was probably some truth to the story above.

I think he was insulted that Gibson relegated him to a budget brand for the electric Hawaiians. After the Vita series, tho, I don't think that Harmony had any RS models until the late 1940s or 50s and beyond and that was during the Arthur Godfrey-initiated uke craze of the 1950s.

[Jim Garber]

Here is a photo I took of Roy with his Vita uke for an interview I did with him for Guild of American Luthiers magazine, maybe around 1985.

[MikeEdgerton]

I think that some of those Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe guitars may have been converted for normal play. Jerry Jeff Walker sings a song about a guitar that "Didn't look like too much, just a Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe..." I do believe there's a picture of him playing it on the first JJW LP.

Here's a link with some pictures to a site that describes the changes and lists some information about the guitars.

[Bernie Daniel]

Mike Edgerton: I think that some of those Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe guitars may have been converted for normal play. Jerry Jeff Walker sings a song about a guitar that "Didn't look like too much, just a Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe..." I do believe there's a picture of him playing it on the first JJW LP

Yes I am sure that some definately were converted. The owner of Mike's Music in Cincinnati (deals in a lot of vintage Gibson both acoustic and electric -- whole wall full of Les Pauls) had one converted.

I think he still might have it in his personal collection and in his opinion he said that he basically had an Advance Jumbo when he was done -- he has his own repair man associated with his store. So the cost was just the guys salary for the week or whatever I guess.

I expect that this assessment is pretty accurate as he is pretty knowledgable about all vintage instrument and he also sold an AJ for (I think about) about lots of $$ about 5 years ago.

Mike's Music

[jeff mercer]

Norman Blake has an interesting Smeck conversion. Rather than lowering the nut, installing frets & adjusting the saddle- which is the usual procedure- he had the entire neck replaced with one from a '30s L-series Gibson.
Apparently the wide nut width- closer to a classical guitar- on a converted Smeck is a problem for some players, so that's how Mr.Blake got around it !
Having said that, I tried out a re-issue recently- they come "ready converted"- & it felt pretty good, though the sound did'nt excite me much..bought a beaten up '59 J-50 instead, sounds fantastic

[Jim Garber]

Having said that, I tried out a re-issue recently- they come "ready converted"- & it felt pretty good, though the sound did'nt excite me much..bought a beaten up '59 J-50 instead, sounds fantastic

I have yet to find a reissue Gibson that sounds as good as any of my vintage ones. I have a ca. 1950 SJ and LG, a '37 LC and '39 L-00.

[Michael Cameron]

Yes I am sure that some definately were converted. The owner of Mike's Music in Cincinnati (deals in a lot of vintage Gibson both acoustic and electric -- whole wall full of Les Pauls) had one converted.

I think he still might have it in his personal collection and in his opinion he said that he basically had an Advance Jumbo when he was done -- he has his own repair man associated with his store. So the cost was just the guys salary for the week or whatever I guess.

I expect that this assessment is pretty accurate as he is pretty knowledgable about all vintage instrument and he also sold an AJ for (I think about) about lots of $$ about 5 years ago.

Mike's Music

I was lucky enough to witness Dr. Galloup perform a Smeck Stage Deluxe conversion to round-neck while at "The Guitar Hospital" in Big Rapids. I'm still suffering PTSD.

IIRC,he just had at it with a new rasp. He was quick,like a magician,trusting his hands and eyeballing. About 80% of the shaping was done in about 15 minutes. It seemed to me. I wasn't really timing anything.

Mr. Eldon Whitford brough many vintage Gibson guitars to show us. "Us" was two newbie students. The word is way overused;but,it was truly awesome. Overloaded the circuits. I didn't purchase his "Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars" til a year or so after that.

Eldon went to a lot of trouble hauling those guitars to further our education. He's a gentleman of great caliber and certified Gibson Scholar.

In 1995 I didn't own a camera. A camcorder woulda been nice.

It was inevitable that this thread would turn Roy Smeck. I'm also a fan of Roy Cone and Jackson Browne.

[Jim Garber]

I was lucky enough to witness Dr. Galloup perform a Smeck Stage Deluxe conversion to round-neck while at "The Guitar Hospital" in Big Rapids. I'm still suffering PTSD.

I believe that those Roy Smeck guitars had round necks to begin with, at least they didn't have square necks like many Hawaiians. Sounds like Dr. G was trimming the neck down from its original width.

[Bob A]

I've never played a Gibson re-issue that had any real resemblance to one of the vintage ones.

The main problem is they build the new ones way too heavily. I suppose they're worried about having to cover the warranty. Pity, as my old ones seem to have survived without too much problem, and the ones that needed work didn't need that much. Of course, there were doubtless many examples that just fell apart or were played to death.

[Michael Cameron]

I believe that those Roy Smeck guitars had round necks to begin with, at least they didn't have square necks like many Hawaiians. Sounds like Dr. G was trimming the neck down from its original width.

Jim,I have to admit I'm not 100% sure of the model. It was a Gibson Roy Smeck with a square neck that was converted to round-neck. Whether it was a Stage Deluxe(I still think it was) or a Radio Grande...it was about 12 years ago.

I wasn't enough of a newbie back then to mistake a square Hawaiian neck for a round-neck guitar. There are plenty more differences between the two than neck shape anyway.

[Jim Garber]

I suppose it is possible that a Roy Smeck Gibson from that era could have been made with a square neck but according to Mr. Whitford et al in the aforementioned book, the Smeck guitars had a wide (I think 2 1/4 or 2 1/8 inch) neck with the standard v-profile of that era, similar to the other flattops. In fact AFAIK all the acoustic flattop Hawaiians that Gibson made had similarly shaped necks and never square ones. It was probably their way of economizing: make all the guitar necks and then adapt them to the purpose. Strange tho that the Smecks, which were only made to be Hawaiian had round necks as well.

[JMUSIC]

Did anyone see this on Ebay?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CLEARWATER-V...3286.m63.l1177

[Jim Garber]

This one looks much better made, by Ukiyo at Buffalo Brothers.

BTW the original Vita ukes had exceptionally thin tops. That eBay one looks like it it too heavily built.

[JMUSIC]

Yes, it looked pretty cheap but it does have a pickup.
I had these in for Christmas from Saga. At $89 they were pretty darn good ukes with pickups. I sold out of them in 2 days. John's Music

[Michael Cameron]

I suppose it is possible that a Roy Smeck Gibson from that era could have been made with a square neck but according to Mr. Whitford et al in the aforementioned book, the Smeck guitars had a wide (I think 2 1/4 or 2 1/8 inch) neck with the standard v-profile of that era, similar to the other flattops. In fact AFAIK all the acoustic flattop Hawaiians that Gibson made had similarly shaped necks and never square ones. It was probably their way of economizing: make all the guitar necks and then adapt them to the purpose. Strange tho that the Smecks, which were only made to be Hawaiian had round necks as well.

I may have put my big foot in my mouth regarding my post about the Smeck HG conversion I witnessed. I was truly overwhelmed with all the old guitars,learning neck re-sets,and repairs of all sorts.

I'll try to get in touch with Bryan Galloup or Eldon Whitford about what I thought I saw converted. It does appear that I was mistaken about the "square" Hawaiian neck on the Smeck.

My apologies to all for my errant memory. Usually, it's the short-term memory I have problems with. I didn't aim to spread mis-information;and,I will try to contact those few who were there and report back what they say.
Regards,
Mike

[allenhopkins]

Some really good info on Gibson Roy Smeck guitars at the Vintage Guitars website.

Link

Pictures included. From what they say, the Smeck guitar necks weren't square, but were very wide and flat, with flush "fret" inlays to to facilitate playing Hawaiian style with a steel. The article linked above discusses the pro's and con's of modifying the neck for standard guitar playing.

[jeff mercer]

Cool link, Allen
That blonde Radio Grande conversion is absolutely gorgeous !

Jim, Gibson did make one acoustic Hawaiian with a square neck, the HG 2, however they are ridiculously rare. In fact, Gibson never catalogued the model, and none appear in shipping records. Oddly, they didn't appear 'til c.1950, by which time the Hawaiian music craze was well & truly over, so it's a bit surprising that Gibson even bothered offering a new model.
You can see a pic of one in Gruhn & Carters' "Acoustic Guitars" book.

Happy New Year, all !