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Thread: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fretbear View Post
    And I thought Kenny Baker quit because WSM would not supply him with a tour itinerary when one of Kenny's relatives was sick.......
    ...and you believe that? After how many years of playing for Monroe?
    That happened of course, but that was not the real issue.
    It became the cover story. I think that is the most
    widely held belief. How would that explain why he walked
    off the stage after playing Jerusalem Ridge?

    Just food for thought. Trivia...
    Jim Moss

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    So did baking the mandolin improve the tone any or just destroy the finish? What would happen if I baked my Breedlove?
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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Don't do it Greg.
    It is not what got Frank his big sounding mandolin.
    You need to ask him "What REALLY made that mandolin sound like that?"
    Of course, technique has a lot to do with it... but there is more.

    Jim Moss

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    The bridge he made for it?

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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Here is Frank talking about his baking project.
    http://www.candlewater.com/interviews/story006.html

    I am surprised that no one has brought up the story about him filing his front teeth to a point.
    That is a good one too.
    The question is, how did that effect the sound of his mandolin?

    Jim Moss

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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    The Bakelite and fiberglass bridge did help.
    He talks about that on the intro to one of the Ultra Clear Lesson DVDs.
    ... but that is not the what, he said, was the major effect.
    However, his technique is a big deal with his sound. People just don't get it.
    He is a minimalist. Less effort to start the movement with minimal movement.
    Plus there is less effort to stop the movement. It is classic violin theory.

    Jim Moss

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    The finish helps too. French Polish thin finish minimum restriction to the face.

    I noticed a long time ago that the sound of some mandolins and fiddles seems
    to come from inside the instrument, if you are standing in front of them.
    Muddy like sound that is cloaked in echo and reverberation.

    However, really good clear punchy mandolins and fiddles seem to have the sound appear
    to be coming from a few inches in front of the instrument. My fiddle and Frank's mandolin are like that.
    I am not sure what does that and I have talked to mandolin makers about this when we would go on tour.
    Violin players get this more than mandolin players I think.

    Jim Moss

  8. #33
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    If you are not going to say anything, why even mention it? We know you played with Frank.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Actually, he has said a lot, just not answered that question. All in good time, it seems.

    Rainbow Quest ran from 1965-1966, 39 episodes in all. This was episode # 31, which would make it 1966.

    BTW, the entry for this at imdb.com - my go-to source for movie and TV info - is woefully inadequate. If anyone has information regarding this great series and wants to spend a little time updating the info it would be a big help to everyone interested . Its easy enough to register, a little clunky to operate their way, but it would be worth doing.
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  10. #35
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    I met Frank at one of his workshops. What an inspiration to play with. And what a nice guy.
    Indulge responsibly!

    The entire staff
    funny....

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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Actually, he has said a lot, just not answered that question. All in good time, it seems.
    Well, think of it this way. Before, you didn't even know that there was a question...
    to ask him next time you see him.

    I am bound by my word.

    So it is like having a compass... to use to find a truth.

    Some truths can be dangerous... like in Jurassic Park.

    I have always said, that Information is a Liability. Like at a club when some big punk-n-roller starts to spout off about a drug deal they are involved with. Man, that is the time to walk away... and fast. There is a Liability to knowing that information.

    In this case it is not the same kind of thing, but if one of you decided to do anything that you think Frank did to his mandolin and you destroy your mandolin... That would not be good.
    ...A Liability to knowing.

    However, your search might produce something new.
    I am just telling you that there is more out there.
    Like being given a compass.

    It is dark and raining like crazy outside.
    Just the time for some cryptic wisdom.
    I guess I could have backed it saidwords.
    Jim Moss
    Last edited by Jmoss; Apr-12-2012 at 6:44am.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Good point. I always thought Mr. "Bakefield" "waked" his Loar.
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    Registered User Justus True Waldron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    I know people that think Frank is crazy, and I also know a lot of younger pickers that think he's just plain sloppy and bad. Having been fortunate enough to spend even a little bit of time with him I can say he is definitely neither of those things. (Ok, well his playing can get sort of sloppy at times now... but anyways). I first met frank 8 years ago when I just started playing (he lives right near here in Saratoga). He sometimes comes to Marty Macica's shop for setup on his loar, and that's how I met him, back-talking and everything. I ended up going over to his house for a lesson, and while I admit I was a little apprehensive due to all his joking, once he started teaching he was all business... Clear, helpful, and funny. His playing was really relaxed and quite good too. He taught me a couple old fiddle tunes in the "traditional" style and I wish I had recorded the lesson... I also wish I knew what I know now, being 15 at the time and new to bluegrass I knew nothing of Loars or his stories, and I didn't have any good questions for him. He did tell me he baked his mandolin once but I just figured he was joking... he was definitely very nice, and gave me a packet of tab for a ton of his songs, some CDs and various pamphlets/ pictures he scrounged up and handed to me as I was heading out the door. About a year or so ago I was hosting a bluegrass radio show on WRPI and he called in to thank me for announcing a local show he was doing (Goodbye, this is Justus your enemy calling...). When he found out I didn't have his latest album he sent in 2 - one for the station and one for me. I also ended up separately getting to know Tom Mindte and the folks at Patuxent that do his records - Tom's got all kinds of good Wakefield stories. I'm hoping I get to run into Frank again, now that I actually have some questions for him...
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    lol..I'm not going to bake my BL just yet but thought about tearing of the high gloss finish I custom ordered from the factory but I promise not to paint it red. After posting here I went and read the interview and he really says the difference is the player and technique but I know that a master craftsman can build a great box no matter what he's using but the right tools make it easier.
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  16. #40

    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Justus True Waldron View Post
    I know people that think Frank is crazy, and I also know a lot of younger pickers that think he's just plain sloppy and bad. Having been fortunate enough to spend even a little bit of time with him I can say he is definitely neither of those things. (Ok, well his playing can get sort of sloppy at times now... but anyways). I first met frank 8 years ago when I just started playing (he lives right near here in Saratoga). He sometimes comes to Marty Macica's shop for setup on his loar, and that's how I met him, back-talking and everything. I ended up going over to his house for a lesson, and while I admit I was a little apprehensive due to all his joking, once he started teaching he was all business... Clear, helpful, and funny. His playing was really relaxed and quite good too. He taught me a couple old fiddle tunes in the "traditional" style and I wish I had recorded the lesson... I also wish I knew what I know now, being 15 at the time and new to bluegrass I knew nothing of Loars or his stories, and I didn't have any good questions for him. He did tell me he baked his mandolin once but I just figured he was joking... he was definitely very nice, and gave me a packet of tab for a ton of his songs, some CDs and various pamphlets/ pictures he scrounged up and handed to me as I was heading out the door. About a year or so ago I was hosting a bluegrass radio show on WRPI and he called in to thank me for announcing a local show he was doing (Goodbye, this is Justus your enemy calling...). When he found out I didn't have his latest album he sent in 2 - one for the station and one for me. I also ended up separately getting to know Tom Mindte and the folks at Patuxent that do his records - Tom's got all kinds of good Wakefield stories. I'm hoping I get to run into Frank again, now that I actually have some questions for him...
    I think that you are absolutely correct. I think that Frank is as crazy as a fox. A couple of comments he made after one of his "crazy" wisecracks indicated to me that he is quite aware of what he is saying. He has basically no formal education, he has grade 4, and is very intelligent, something that manifests itself in this apparently outlandish way.

  17. #41
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    I'd like to play as sloppy as Frank does. As for the young guys, see if they could write something like Stexican Momp and then play it. Frank isn't all that crazy, he just acts that way. It's his schtick.

  18. #42
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Quote Originally Posted by greg_tsam View Post
    I'm not going to bake my BL just yet....
    Bummer...
    I was looking forward to that....

  19. #43
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    I met Wake Frankfield just last year, at a workshop. He started playing "Red River Valley", and I began to play the melody softly to myself, sure that I was out of earshot. He noticed right away, however, and to my horror (and eventual joy), he said, "That's it! Keep playing that!" What could I do but keep on playing? He then proceed to play a harmony line to my novice playing (I'd never played the tune before.) I was blown away. I went to the workshop with the hopes of being able to say I was taught "New Camptown Races" by Frank himself. I came away having him harmonize to my playing, and I will never be the same. (Thanks, Wake!)

    My new goal is to be able to play "The Old Cat Sneezed" with him when he comes around again. So far, it's a big ask, but I'm working on it!
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spruce View Post
    Bummer...
    I was looking forward to that....
    Do you have a recipe?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jmoss View Post
    I am surprised that no one has brought up the story about him filing his front teeth to a point.
    That is a good one too.
    The question is, how did that effect the sound of his mandolin?

    Jim Moss
    Why did he sharpen his teeth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
    If you are not going to say anything, why even mention it? We know you played with Frank.
    I didn't. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by eadg145 View Post
    I met Wake Frankfield just last year, at a workshop. He started playing "Red River Valley", and I began to play the melody softly to myself, sure that I was out of earshot. He noticed right away!
    So potential tragedy and embarrassment (from breaking the "no diddling" rule) turns into a very memorable moment for you. Awesome. Great poise and patience from Frank. Nice guy.
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  21. #45
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Quote Originally Posted by greg_tsam View Post
    Do you have a recipe?
    10-12 hours at 180 or so might do the trick...
    Of course, you might also have a "kit" to put back together when you're done....

  22. #46
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    Smile Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Quote Originally Posted by greg_tsam View Post
    Why did he sharpen his teeth?
    Actually, I never said he sharpened his teeth.

    I said, "I am surprised that no one has brought up the story about him filing his front teeth to a point." Then "That is a good one too." the story that is... I then said, "The question is, how did that effect the sound of his mandolin?" I was alluding to all the crazy stories that surround him. It was a joke. I used to get asked about that story all the time, even from our guitar player. And here we are years later...

    The thing is... some stories about Frank are actually true. It's just hard to tell which ones!!
    It's what makes Frank more fun then any other Bluegrassers out there.

    Regarding the comments about some thinking that Frank's playing is sloppy...
    They demonstrate a very limited scope of knowledge. If they would take a
    moment and study musicians like Louis Armstrong then they would be better
    prepared to understand how Jazz works. Bluegrass is Hillbilly Jazz.

    Frank is a genus and just keeps spitting out these great Bluegrass licks.
    There is no one in his class. So when you are going for it and stretching out,
    you might actually over shoot from time to time. That's Jazz, because when
    you hit it, you blow the place apart. That's Jazz. People don't understand
    how he uses his right arm and pick. You need to stand above him looking
    down on his strings, pick, and hand to get that. Monroe had a similar way.

    Also, the band might not be where they need to be.

    You know, I produced the bands that we used to tour with. I taught them, in a recording study environment playing to my album tracks recorded with Frank, to think like a drummer, like Gene Krupa, so they could lay track just 10 feet ahead of a speeding train... The Frank Wakefield train... The track that would give Frank a framework to stretch out on and to be able to change directions with him at any moment... so he could take risks and create great breaks and backup. My job in putting bands together was to give Frank lots of room and a solid backup timing. When Frank hears that, he slips into this mode where he starts channeling all these great breaks and backup licks.

    Frank is unique. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
    Jim Moss
    Last edited by Jmoss; Apr-12-2012 at 9:00pm.

  23. #47
    Different Text eadg145's Avatar
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    So potential tragedy and embarrassment (from breaking the "no diddling" rule) turns into a very memorable moment for you. Awesome. Great poise and patience from Frank. Nice guy.
    Well, technically I wasn't breaking the "no diddling" rule. (I absolutely HATE it when people noodle at workshops, particularly when the instructor is talking.) In this case, he was playing the melody while we played the chord changes. I'd never played the song before. I liked what he was playing and where he was playing it on the neck, so I was trying to figure it out, both for my fingers and my small recorder next to me. I have a good ear, so I picked it up. My mistake was figuring he wouldn't hear me. Frank actually seemed tickled that I was trying to double his part. ("Twinin" is the term he uses.)
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  24. #48
    Registered User Justus True Waldron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    Regarding the comments about some thinking that Frank's playing is sloppy...
    They demonstrate a very limited scope of knowledge. If they would take a
    moment and study musicians like Louis Armstrong then they would be better
    prepared to understand how Jazz works. Bluegrass is Hillbilly Jazz.
    I am first and foremost a jazz player - been playing jazz clarinet for the past 11 years, and dabble in jazz on mandolin as well. I get what frank is doing, but I do play with a couple guys who don't. They've never seen or met him though. I've seen him do some amazing things in person, I wasn't trying to knock frank in any way...
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  25. #49
    Registered User doc holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Before Wakefield baked the Loar ...

    "Kitchen Tapes" is one of my desert island CDs. I think Frank Bakefield can wake the Loar!

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