Purchasing a bandolim or cavaquinho?

[Mark Levesque]

I bought a Joao Batista bandolim from Carmel Music back in 2001 and have had no issues.
We humidify the house in the winter which must help.

Here's an mp3 of what mine sounds like:
http://www.mandolincafe.net/mp3/levesque.mp3

Joao has written back to me in English when I have had questions.

[Doug Hoople]

Now a year after buying my Joao, I'm still playing it daily. It's a great instrument, and has held up pretty well, with some minor issues. (Cracking nut needs replacement, and I do too though, looking to add a pickup to it)

Hi Al,

It's your fault, actually. I resisted buying a bandolim for years, and wasn't convinced that I really wanted one. But then I played your Batista last April at the Port Townsend Choro Workshop. It was so playable and the sound was so nice, I determined to get one at the earliest possible.

It wasn't until August that anything turned up in the Cafe classifieds, but then John Eubanks put his Batista up for sale. I couldn't line up consent in time from my wife, and his Batista sold, but he also had a Barros he was selling, maple back and sides, already wired with a Fishman SBT series pickup in it. On the strength of players like Pedro Amorim and Rodrigo Lessa playing these instruments, and John's observation that it was the equal of his Batista, I bit.

Well, it's a beautiful instrument and I can't stop playing it. I get great comments on its sound from people who hear it, and it sounds as good amplified as anything I've heard so far.

My only problem with it is that the bridge cuts through E strings like a knife, so I'm going to have to get it to a luthier to clear that up. No biggie.

You might include the Fishmans on your list of pickups to evaluate, Al. And let us know which way you decide to go when the time comes.

Doug

[mandolirius]

Are there any North American luthiers making professional-caliber bandolims?

[John Eubanks]

Hi Doug,
I am really glad to hear you are playing the barros bandolim and enjoying it. I purchased the instrument in Rio from Rodrigo lessa and he assured me it was a great example of a Barros chosen out of a batch of 5 or 6. When I was taking a lesson from Rodrigo I played his 10 string and was immediately hooked. that is why he sold the Barros to me and why I passed it on to you. All of the bandolinistas I met in Rio were very helpful and I am sure would help in any way they could with a bandolim purchase. I recommend working with Tercio Ribiero. Sorry to hear about the e strings. I don't think I ever broke a string on a job. I am sure it will be easy to fix.
John

[Doug Hoople]

Sorry to hear about the e strings. I don't think I ever broke a string on a job. I am sure it will be easy to fix.
John

Hi John,

Yes, no biggie. Things like that creep into the best of instruments, and I'm sure the fix will be easy. I've actually gotten a little relief by putting a bit of pencil lead in the string slots, so the slots are probably just binding a bit. I'll let the "graphite" solution settle and see what happens. If I'm still breaking strings after that, then it's a trip to the luthier.

In the meantime, since my return last August, we've been out twice or three times a week playing, a surprisingly regular mix of rodas along with one proper formal gig, a film festival gala. The Barros has seen a lot of playing time, and lots of people are saying good things about what they're hearing. It may be the only proper bandolim in all of New Zealand, so it gets a lot of attention from the Brazilians who come in to hear us play. It has the unmistakable sound of home, even in my hands.

Thanks again, John! It's real joy.

[Jim Garber]

So, what happened to Joao Batista? His web site is no longer live. Is he still building?

[mandolirius]

Are there any North American luthiers making professional-caliber bandolims?

I'm guessing not. I'm interested in a bandolim but have no idea where to start looking. Because of heavy customs and import duties to Canada, I'd prefer not to have to import an instrument from Brazil.

[Al Bergstein]

Doug, glad I could contribute to the delinquency of a minor key. As to your e string breaking, what size strings do you use? I've not broken any e's or others. Got space down there if Megan and I decide to take a trip to NZ this winter?

As to finding a builder of a bandolim up here, good luck. My buddy Dave Llewellen who builds outrageously good guitars wanted to build a bandolim, but couldn't find any plans anywhere. If you wanted to contact him, he'd try it based on my bandolim's measurements. But I would just make the efforts to find a Portuguese speaker and communicate directly with someone down in Brazil. The cost of building here would be much higher than there. Barring that, jump on a plane. It's a fun place to go and have a great excuse!

Since Joao seems to have dropped off the radar, I would go with dudu's maker. Not sure what the prices might be, but Dudu is a great guy, very accessible, speaks English and can probably point you in the right direction for the price you want to pay. And he gives great lessons over the Internet! Or try these....http://www.bandolim.net/luthiers

I've give the Fishman's a try, Doug. it was funny, a famous british mandolin player told me that when he visited the Rigel shop, the actual pickups they were using were built from Radio Shack parts. Not sure this is real, but apparently the pickups weren't very fancy, but did the job just fine!

Hope to see you all next April at the next Choro workshop in Port Townsend at Centrum. We are working on making it even better than last year, which was more fun than anyone should have. Met with the guys last week to discuss plans for the workshop. Bring all your bandolims!

[Doug Hoople]

Doug, glad I could contribute to the delinquency of a minor key. As to your e string breaking, what size strings do you use? I've not broken any e's or others. Got space down there if Megan and I decide to take a trip to NZ this winter?

We've got a spare bedroom, Al, so let us know when you're coming. Try to be here on a Tuesday so you can come to the roda at Estadio!

[Jim Garber]

Since Joao seems to have dropped off the radar, I would go with dudu's maker. Not sure what the prices might be, but Dudu is a great guy, very accessible, speaks English and can probably point you in the right direction for the price you want to pay. And he gives great lessons over the Internet!

It took me a little while to find, but Dudu's luthier is Pedro Santos. Has anyone dealt with him and know of the range of price? Also, on his site he mentions back woods: Fundo de jacarandá filetado and Fundo de jacarandá. Anyone know what the difference is?

[Michael Wolf]

I once mailed Pedro and asked him about prices. He replied in English, so no language-barrier. The price of a rosewood bandolim was about 1700,- Dollar. I played one of his mandos that was in a shop here in Germany and it was a wonderful instrument, sounded like choro as you might guess. It was the loudest instrument in the shop as well. The were Flatbush, Weber and other arch top mandos.
Well, it was certainly a total different sound and not really comparable. The highs of the bandolim were so aggressive that the hurt the ears a bit, but that´s certainly good for the roda.
I would have bought that Santos, but while trying to sell one of my archtops to free some money that Bandolim from Switzerland was offered to me and I swaped the archtop for it.

Btw.: It looks like DuDu is also playing a Ribeiro besides his Santos.

[Jim Garber]

It sounds like Pedro Santos is in the same price realm as most of the other makers. Ribeiro seem sot be way above them -- sort of the Dude/Gilchrist/Monteleone of Brazil.

[Al Bergstein]

Just got my reply from Dudu. Here's his recommendation:

"I highly recommend luthier Pedro Santos, I play his instrument in the Caraivana videos. His website is www.pedrosantos.com.br . He's a real nice guy and his prices are quite reasonable."

[Doug Hoople]

I'm guessing not. I'm interested in a bandolim but have no idea where to start looking. Because of heavy customs and import duties to Canada, I'd prefer not to have to import an instrument from Brazil.

Probably the best thing to do is wait until something comes up on the Cafe Classifieds. They don't come up often, but when they do, they're usually good. I know of someone who bought her Tercio Ribeiro 10-string that way at a very reasonable price. There were two quality bandolins that came on last August. It just takes a little patience. It's a small community, so the buyers and sellers generally know each other from hanging out here, and you'll probably get a good sense of whether or not the instrument is good before you have to commit.

The other thing you might do is have an instrument built in Brazil, have a friend in Seattle or Bellingham buy it on your behalf, and go pick it up directly. If I've just suggested something illegal, then ignore the suggestion.

Or, just pay the duty. It's around 6%, right? A bandolim is not that expensive. You're not buying a Loar, and you're not paying the labor for all those curly-cues, after all. You're going to let $100 or so prevent you from getting your hands on one of these beautiful things?

[Jim Garber]

Seems like there is a path strewn with dead links... what is the story with brazmus.com?

Just another question: how do Barros bandolims compare with, say, Batistas? Also, is there a general preference for rosewood vs. maple?

[mandolirius]

Probably the best thing to do is wait until something comes up on the Cafe Classifieds. They don't come up often, but when they do, they're usually good. I know of someone who bought her Tercio Ribeiro 10-string that way at a very reasonable price. There were two quality bandolins that came on last August. It just takes a little patience. It's a small community, so the buyers and sellers generally know each other from hanging out here, and you'll probably get a good sense of whether or not the instrument is good before you have to commit.

-I've been watching.

The other thing you might do is have an instrument built in Brazil, have a friend in Seattle or Bellingham buy it on your behalf, and go pick it up directly. If I've just suggested something illegal, then ignore the suggestion.

-Nope, it's not illegal and that may be the way I have to go in the end.

Or, just pay the duty. It's around 6%, right? A bandolim is not that expensive. You're not buying a Loar, and you're not paying the labor for all those curly-cues, after all. You're going to let $100 or so prevent you from getting your hands on one of these beautiful things?

I wish it was 6%. I couldn't find out the rate online, but it's a pretty specific question that will likely require a phone call. Based on some other items I did find, 14-16% may be closer to the mark. Plus there are the broker fees and they are substantial in Canada. There will be the combined federal and provincial taxes as well.

[Jesse Appelman]

Here's Joao Batista's website - seems live to me: http://www.jbinstrumentos.com.br/jb/

[Jim Garber]

Here's Joao Batista's website - seems live to me: http://www.jbinstrumentos.com.br/jb/

Wow, that is amazing. he is unsearchable for some reason. If I put the URL without the jb at the end it doesn't come up. Good work.

Funny site tho... I tried the contact form and I am not sure if it worked. I may have his email address at home since I contacted him a few years ago when I found that Carmel Music no longer sold his instruments.

Jim

[Baskervils]

Often with my Brazilian searches, search engines will disregard the main country site if it finds listings for products in English.

Finding Brazilian anything, especially records (I collect Forro records), can take some finaglingng.

Rob

[Paul Kotapish]

Does anyone have experience with the instruments of J.P. Charles, the French bandolim player and luthier living in Bahia? His archtop bandolims look and sound lovely, but I've never seen one.

http://www.jpcharlesluthier.com/eng01.htm

Is anyone else building archtops in the Brazilian style?

[Jim Garber]

Paul: where did you hear one of Charles' instruments? It looks like Ted Eschliman and Gary Payne who both post here at the Cafe own his instruments and are pictured in his Gallery pages. The first instrument i saw was at RF Charle's site in France and was an acoustic-electric mandolin wit5h a very graceful style. He makes flattop bandolims as well as arched ones.

[Jim Garber]

Anyone have email address for Joao Batista or have any idea of what his instruments cost today? I don't think that the contact form on his site works.

[Jim Garber]

An interesting Del Vecchio bandolim on eBay. I know Del Vecchio only as the makers of resonator guitars. Anyone familiar with these bandolims?

[Baskervils]

I think that the Del Vecchio on ebay was a student fairly inexpensive student model from Brazil, which usually costs around $150 there. It did come with a nice case! You don't see them in the States too often.

[Baskervils]

I would be curious to know what a top of the line Batista Cavaquinho would run. Camel says that they are $850 and up. I'd love to know what the up is!