Bill frisell effects

[mando.player]

I'm a little new to the effects game, so I thought I would try to tap the collective wisdom of the Cafe for a little help.

I've got a Mann EM-5 and a Peavey Valve King Royal 8 amp (5 watts tube). I've also got an EHX Holy Grail Plus reverb pedal. I'm happy with the results I'm getting, but would like to add another tone to the palette. Rather than try to explain, I figure a sound clip would be easier.

Here is a link to Bill Frisell's page on the NoneSuch site. If you click on the track called "Godson Song" you'll see what I mean.

The tone is sort of thick and sustained. What do you think the primary effect is there? Any direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[groveland]

I'm interested to hear the real answer. All I hear is maybe a touch of compression and some long-decay high-pass reverb - Plus a light slow touch on the whammy bar, which I always thought was kindof his signature.

[delsbrother]

Since you said "any direction", there's this page which may or may not be true OR helpful...

[mando.player]

Yeah, I came across that page myself. Frisell's guitar tone can very drastically from song to song, so it's hard to tell from a list of gear.

Groveland, I thought it could be a compressor but wasn't sure. All the demos I've watched/heard on compressors have been way over the top type of stuff.

[Crowder]

I would get a multi-effects unit and play around with it. Boss/Roland boxes have always been my favorites, but I know there are lots of Digitech fans too.

Frisell's tone sounds to me like a little compression, maybe a tad of chorus, and varying amounts of delay. Many if not most pros will use a little compression just to tighten up the sound and give all the notes a little closer to an equal amount of volume, and it tends to provide a little extra sustain too. Some think that using compression at the beginning of the signal path helps you get more from the effects down the line, which may be true. I know that a little goes a long way.

Another player that uses the same kind of tone to great effect (ahem) is Jon Leventhal. He's married to Rosanne Cash and has produced her last few albums, as well as a few Shawn Colvin records you may have heard on the radio. His lead guitar will often dart in to add a little phrase before fading back into the background. A reverb- or echo-drenched tone works well for that role because it's not so "in your face" that is distracts from the song. He's a fantastic player and producer.

[Ted Eschliman]

Charlie, maybe his MySpace Page would allow you to contact Bill directly.

[groveland]

Yeah, that adds up. Nothing fancy on the list. Based on the example, I'm stcking with compression, and reverb for ambience. The photo of Frisell's Klein shows the Steinberger vibrato tailpiece, but no whammy bar.

[delsbrother]

Not the same song (and looped, no less), but how about this:

Pedalspotting

[Perry]

Looks like he's a got a Line 6 DELAY. Here's some other info:

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/articles/frisell.html

http://www.jazzguitar.be/guitar_rig_bill_frisell.html

[Christian McKee]

Bill Frisell's pitch bending is mostly neck bends, or at least it was the last time I saw him play live. For as many effects as he uses, he is in no way guilty of neglecting the instrument itself...

Christian

[swampy]

I'm so glad your interested, Frisell is one of my all-time favorite guitar players. Talk about the tone king. Gone Like a Train and Nashville are on my all time favorite list. The line 6 delay is the way to go. especially for the sounds on this album. #If used correctly it will create a great amount of sustain with out a ton of repeats. That it'll give you the beautiful ambient reverby effect without the extreme psychedelic space man sound. Also a good overdrive pedal would be almost essential. Listen to the first song on the Gone like a train album. Not necessarily a distortion pedal, you want the warm feedbacky sustain, but not the metal crunch. The ibanez tubescreamer is a good choice. I think its the TS-9.

[mrmando]

I suppose I could ask him next time I see him.

[Christian McKee]

Martin, did he do a hometown show on the tour with Jack DeJohnette? I saw it in Portland, and that was *remarkable* stuff, all three musicians doing oustanding work on instruments and technology.

Christian

[mrmando]

Well, if he did, I missed it. I just see him hanging out at record stores once in a while, and we have something in common: we both play Steve Andersen instruments.

[mando.player]

Here I thought you were joking around. That's pretty cool. If you do bump into him, well...if you think of it ask.

[groveland]

Bill Frisell's pitch bending is mostly neck bends...

Do you mean applying pressure to the neck to the point of changing pitch? Hmmm...

[jajo]

I get similar sounds from my guitar on my Fender Princeton Reverb amp. It's an all-tube amp too, and has both a tank Reverb unit and Vibrato (tremolo) effects built in

I like the way my Mandolin sounds thru it, though I also have a VOX AD30 with a ton of built in effects. So, I can try lots of combinations. You have to hear the mandolin played with an auto-wah to believe it. (Think Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Chile).

Find a Tremolo pedal like the MXR M159, and try it with the reverb. Set the Trem/Vib on about 2 or 3 with heavy reverb (mine is on 5). It's sort of a surf guitar sound but a little more relaxed.

[mando.player]

Tremolo...thanks.

[Christian McKee]

Bill Frisell's pitch bending is mostly neck bends...

Do you mean applying pressure to the neck to the point of changing pitch? Hmmm...

Just so. It produces that very subtle pitch bending effect that manages to just make the whole sound shimmer a bit. It cannot be used to produce the dive-bomb sounds that some whammy bars can make, but it's got its place. I know, people get nervous about the effect on the instrument, but I have yet to see any.

Christian

[mando.player]

So I've been doing some digging on the tone I originally posted. The more I listen to it, I'm pretty sure Bill is just playing into his Fender amp and using the on board reverb and tremolo/vibrato. My amp is pretty simple (i.e. no tremolo), so I started looking at tremolo pedals.

Man there is some crazy stuff out there. Lot's of choppy, helicopter, over-the-top sounds. Boss makes a pedal that emulates a Fender Reverb Deluxe amp. Lot's of mixed reviews on that pedal. Logically it makes sense, but I'm a little skittish based on the reviews. One pedal that looks really nice, seems to nail the sound and looks simple to operate is the Fulltone Supa-Trem. I found a few clips where the they dialed in some nice mellow/conservative tones and it sounded really nice. The only drawback is the price, $199. I'll have to keep an eye on ebay.

Anyone own or have experience with a Supa-Trem?

[groveland]

Just for clarity, the vibrato I referred to (and hear Frisell using) is not typical amp vibrato (tremolo), which is a volume variation. I hear a tonal variation, and it's pretty irregular and random, indicating a manual process (like applying pressure to the neck/body to change string tension).

Does the Supa Trem do that?

[foldedpath]

Is that Godson Song sample from a studio album? Remember that compression isn't necessarily part of the original guitar signal chain, if it's a studio recording. You might be hearing a rackmount compressor/limiter used in the mixdown phase, like a Manley, Pendulum, Tube Tech, Crane Song... there are lots of ways to get very smooth, creamy compression in the studio. And it will sound much better than a guitar pedal. I think I'm hearing that "expensive" compression sound in the clip.

When I use compression in recording electric guitar, I always do it in my recording software (with UAD-1 plugin compressors), because it sounds better to me than any pedal, and I can't afford the big boy studio toys like rackmount tube compressor/limiters.

I know this won't help if you're trying to put together a live rig (unless you have a lot of money to throw at it, and roadies to haul the gear around), but I thought I'd mention it.