Acoustic bass guitar for mandolin orchestra

[mrmando]

I like the Dobro basses Gibson made a few years back. You can actually hear them!

[Dan Krhla]

You have to get the Morgan Monroe bass so you don't look silly or out of place.



http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/MMFB1.htm

[jim_n_virginia]

All you need is a length of clothesline, a broom stick and a wash tub!

[Boombloom]

Hello. My name is Steve and I'm a bassist. (Now everyone chime in... Hi Steve!) I started on the electric bass and eventually got a Guild B50 because I was going to bluegrass festivals. Well, of the flat top acoustic basses I've seen and heard, that was a very good one. Overall, I saw that nothing sounds as good or moves as much air as an upright. Luckily, I owned a SAAB 900 at the time and I could haul the bass around without any trouble. I got my upright at a flea market and never looked back.

Strangely enough though, I recently had the opportunity to try out a 'teens Gibson Mandocello. I have been a struggling mandolinist for years and I know plenty of scales etc. so the mandocello made sense to me. I thought it was great for bass and much easier to carry than the upright. I posted on this site that I was looking for an affordable mandocello. I heard back from Walt at Gypsy and he is building me an instrument that I intend to use for bass stuff. Can't wait. I think it arrives in about 5 weeks.

Another intersection of mando and bass... Pete Langdell (The Wizard of Rigel) had been working on his own ideas for acoustic bass guitar. I had heard very positive things about his bass. I played a couple of his prototypes over the years. I don't know if he ever produced one for the market. Maybe he can come up with something at the crossroads.

So that's my story and my opinion. We'll wait to see how the Gypsy mandocello chapter develops. I think it would be great fun at casual jams instead of the upright. I don't know what to expect from the sound but I think it should be fun.

[PT66]

This is exactly the application I built this for. It is tuned two octaves below a mandolin. A fourth lower then a mandocello. I am working on a second one now.

[Jim Abrams]

Thanks very much to everyone for your feedback about ABGs. #Overall, the message seems to be, go for a standup bass if possible. #It will take some time to let this possibility sink in. #It's a possibility but a remote one.

One of the reasons I am thinking about a bass of any kind is due to the focal dystonia in my picking hand. #It's become next to impossible for me to hold a pick, which makes playing mandola very difficult to say the least. #

I'm thinking bass because it can be plucked without using a pick. #If I could cure the dystonia in my hand, I would have no need for another instrument. #I've tried everything to move past this condition, but to date there is no cure for dystonia.

Anyway, thanks very much for your responses.

Jim

[Tim2723]

Hi again Jim,

I'm sorry to hear of your condition, as I'm sure we all are.

Given that reason, the Monroe bass sounds like a route you might check out. #It certainly looks the role, and a small amplifier can be easily concealed during a performance. With wireless gear you can even have the amp hidden where the audience would never see it. If you happen mic the rest of the group, no one would be the wiser.

While an upright bass might fit the anachronism better, the right settings on an electric bass can give a very convincing performance. Small concessions are perfectly acceptable if the alternative is to let the music fade away.

[mandroid]

Precision Basses, & solid body bass guitars in general are H-e-a-v-y.
I Noted the _Dean_Pace_Bass_ in the similar topic in the electric 4,5,8 section,
fairly low prices, and an upright with a tripod stand,
so functionally a stand-up bass, but a compact solid body, easier to haul, & self supporting ,
so you can sit on a stool, or a chair, comfortably, your music stand in front of you.

and a set of hardware is available to make a bass amp speaker cabinet, to be like wheeled luggage.

to make hauling that part around easier too.

[mrmando]

This is exactly the application I built this for. It is tuned two octaves below a mandolin. A fourth lower then a mandocello. I am working on a second one now.

Dave, could your instrument handle standard bass tuning? It actually won't succeed in an orchestra setting if it doesn't go down to a low E.

[PT66]

Are you asking could it be tuned like an acoustic bass guitar? If so, yes. But that would defeat the point, it wouldn't be a mandolin. If you are asking if it could be tuned down a minor third across all the string, I think it could with a little heavier strings. Finding a variety og gages in that range is difficult.

[delsbrother]

Well, a mandobass isn't tuned like a mandolin either...

Given all your circumstances, why not just go with an electric bass guitar? Lots of choices, and if you're going to have to lug an amp around anyway I'd prefer the less hassle of a solidbody. Lots of electronic modeling doo dads to make it sound like whatever you'd like it to sound like.

[PT66]

As the bass fiddle isn't a member of the violin family (it't a viol). The mando-bass is a mando-shaped bass fiddle with frets. Gibson made a stand up bass banjo too.

[mrmando]

Are you asking could it be tuned like an acoustic bass guitar? If so, yes. But that would defeat the point, it wouldn't be a mandolin.

Well, if you built it to play mandolin orchestra music, then you need the low E because the music is written for an instrument that goes at least that low. Modern symphonic composers sometimes write bass parts that go even lower: down to C, and many symphonic bassists have fingerboard extensions that enable them to reach these notes. The Mike Marshall concerto has a low D in the bass part; we'll have to ask Mike what he had in mind, but it could mean that mandolin orchestra composers are starting to have the same expectations as symphonic composers.

In an orchestral setting, I should think the instrument's ability to cover the expected range of notes is more important than whether it is tuned in fourths or fifths.

Since the scale length on your instrument doesn't appear to be much longer than a mandocello, I'm sure it will be playable in fifths, although DAEB or even CGDA might be less cumbersome tunings than EBF#C#. However, at a more traditional bass scale (40-42"), fifths tuning becomes difficult to manage.

[EdSherry]

I've played most of the ABGs out there, and own three (as well as an upright and several electrics): #a Taylor (a maple AB-3), Guild (B-30), and one of the older Ernie Ball Earthwoods. #(Neither the Taylor nor the Ernie Ball are still in production.) #Those three and the Tacoma Thunderchief (which I like a lot for the money) are the only ABGs that I've found that have any acoustic volume to speak of. #Even then, they're not loud enough to be heard (unplugged) in anything other than a small (2-3 instruments) indoors jam session.

I wouldn't think they have enough volume to be heard in a mandolin orchestra context. #For that, you need either an upright bass or (as some have mentioned) a small bass amp.

Once you plug in, you have a wider set of choices. #To my ears, the Ashbory basses have the closest sound to an upright, but their design (short scale, rubber-ish strings) makes them a poor choice overall (IMHO). #Some other ABGs (including the Epiphone El Capitans and some Washburns) sound pretty good plugged in. #

Most electric basses don't sound like acoustic basses when plugged in, and thus would tend not to fit in (IMHO) into the "acoustic" sound of a mandolin orchestra, though it's amazing what they can do with modeling preamps/amps these days. #

All of these are playable with the fingers. #In my experience, the technique for ABG is very different from the technique for upright acoustic, so you might want to "try before you buy" if hand problems are an issue.

I echo Paul H's comments about the guitarron. #A very different kettle of fish.

[steve V. johnson]

I have a Tacoma CB-something, it's a sort of rare all-mahogany one, and it has the Fishman Prefix + preamp, which seems like the best option of the available ones.

This one has gotten louder acoustically over time, even tho I use black tape-wound strings (RotoSounds) on it, and it will do pretty well with up to about five acoustic players, but if anyone else is plugged in, or if there's a keyboard or drums it has to be plugged in. # I use an SWR Workingman's 10 with it and it's pretty versatile, small and good for quiet stuff and it is amazingly good in clubs, too.

I like this one really, really well. #I'd like to have a five-string Tacoma, and I'm kind of holding out to find another all-mahogany one, tho I know they're no longer made.

Breedlove has a new ABG, but it has a small body, so it's probably not designed for acoustic use.

After all that, if doing your orchestra bass acoustically is important, a double bass is probably the
best, with maybe a resonator second.

I hope you find the right answer for the mando orchestra!

stv

[Boombloom]

You know... I'm kind of surprised that no one mentioned the Ashbory bass. It may be the best sounding electric I've tried. It is quite inexpensive in its current incarnation (DeArmond) and get this--the scale length is roughly the same as a mandolin! Google Ashbory. I think this instrument is the only thing in the world with that name.

[Paul Hostetter]

The feel of the strings is about as weird as it gets too. Joel Eckhaus made a bass ukulele that employed the strings of an Ashbory. Here's another by David Gomes:

[allenhopkins]

Great thing about the Ashbory basses (I have one of the Guild originals) is that they're close to a mandolin scale!

[delsbrother]

More Bass Ukes

There are a few different choices for strings; all feel weird. Some don't require powder though.

[Jay from VA]

To Jimdola, the original poster. #I'm sorry to hear abut your condition. #I have a friend in the same boat, and I saw the great banjo player Tom Adams suffering with it as well.

I agree with those posts that suggested an upright. #There just isn't anything better, though the transportation can be a bear. #Failing that, a good Fender Precision bass is easy to learn, easy to play and easy to tote around.

Or you can try this at Picker's Supply in Fredericksburg, VA...

Picker's Supply

Looks really cool, but for the price tag I'd get a really good vintage Kay upright and still have some change in my pocket.

Lotsa choices. #Hope one of them works for you. #Best of luck.

[Jim Abrams]

Thanks Jay and thanks again to all. #Yes, Tom Adams has written eloquently about his struggles with dystonia. #He finds playing the banjo to be difficult and so has turned to the guitar. #Hopefully there will be a cure for dystonia before too long. #That hope keeps me holding on to my mandola, a great sounding #Kimble.

Jim

[Jim MacDaniel]

According to this web site, they can sell you a new mandobass for only $899.

[Baird6869]

I bought a Morgan Monroe acoustic bass last year and it is great. Very loud compared to Tacoma, Breedlove, Taylor and Martin and a fraction of the price (the MM is about $500 with a nice case). I can be heard while playing with 2 guitarists but unsure of mandolins as I am a mandolin newbie.