Monroe's mandolin

[Russ Jordan]

I dug out the September '86 Fret's magazine--Monroe's 75th Birthday issue--yesterday. After restoration his mandolin had gold tuners, with what looked like the original silver tailpiece.

I wonder why the gold tuners were put on, instead of silver or nickel. I guess Charlie D knows!!

[Charlie Derrington]

The gold tuners were put on in the late '70s (correct me if I'm wrong Darryl or Tommy) when Mon made up with Gibson. I don't know if he asked for them or not. I wasn't going to change what was already on there. The task given me was to repair his mandolin, not restore it to its original state. If you'll remember, Gibson got in hot water with Mr. Bill when they thought they were doing that very thing (however misguided they were in terms of information on originality) in the late '50s.

The tailpiece is gold, also.

In other words, I wasn't going to change anything that I thought he'd notice. (I did go back to the original inlay style on the headstock because I didn't think he'd even notice....which he didn't.)

Charlie

[Scotti Adams]

..Charlie..that cant be the original bridge either..right?....with those big knurls..to be honest I think those look cheesy....esp. on that mando....any idea what happened to the original bridge and why Mr. Bill opted for the bigger knurls?....probably to make it easier to adjust...

[Charlie Derrington]

Actually, he liked the sound of the big wheels. I tried on several occasions to get him to change back to a Loar bridge...he wouldn't hear of it.

I have no clue what happened to the original bridge, or tuners, or tailpiece, or nut, or bushings, or screws, or etc.

Charlie

[Russ Jordan]

Charlie,
Thanks for the info. That tailpiece sure looks silver in the photo, though.

[BenE]

I could be wrong but I thought there was some story about someone buying an auction item at the time of the estate sale and the item they purchased came with a bridge that was thought to be off Mr. Monroe's Loar....I may have this all mixed up but maybe someone could shed the light.....

[Scotti Adams]

thanks Charlie..I hope to see ya at SPBGMA.....Im coming down on friday....I hope to visit the shop too..

[f5loar]

From 1945 until about the mid 60's when Monroe was able to find some real guys to work on the Loar he was at the mercy of doing what he had to do. I suspect the original bridge probably snapped and his only recoarse at that time was a new one from Gibson which would be rosewood with big wheels.
Loar parts were not too common in the 50's and you didn't think to buy a Loar era F4 to get the parts of it to salvage your own Loar F5.
Same for the tuners. The originals probably just fell apart from that type of daily abuse and string changing. He resorted to what ever he could find that would fit and work.
At one time he had one side with F4 Handel tuners and on the other side newer Gibson closed back Gold Klusons. Darryl and I suspect Monroes Loar originally came with Gold parts. It was possible to get those in the '23 the most famous being the William Place, Jr. June '23 Loar decked out in full Gold so we know they had the gold that early. There have been no color photos of Monroe found prior to the "Gibson" dig out in the headstock so it would be hard to tell for sure gold from silver in b/w photos. We do know at one time there were signs that the tailpiece bottom was gold. But again pure supeculation as it could be the silver so worn off it was the brass showing. Randy Wood tells stories of when in the 60's he would try to replace the nut for Monroe without telling him only to find he had to put the old one back on. I suspect the reason he liked the big wheels on the bridge was he was constantly changing the height of the bridge as the neck slowing was pulling up. Randy would put shims in the neck heel vs. a full neck re-set job which it badly needed as Monroe didn't want his action changed from where he had found the right sound he wanted. The big wheels are so much easier to change quickly than the small ones. And Charlie is right as in the late 70's when Gibson and Monroe kissed and made up the only F5 parts they had then were Gold ones so Monroe got the Gold makeover then. Remember Gibson presented Monroe with a brand new 1978 F5L as a peace offering to do the work to the Loar. He accepted the free offer to fix it.
If someone told me they had for sale the original Loar bridge from Monroe's July Loar I would be highly suspecious of their source unless it was someone like Jimmy Martin or Sonny Osborne or Charlie Cline, Bill Price, Jimmy Maynard,etc or any BGBoy that recieved it from Monroe when he thew it in the trash. There would have to be a letter of authencity signed by someone too! On the photos of Monroe's Loar in later years looking like the original tailpiece cover like on the cover of BU in June, 1982 it could well be the original tailpiece he put on there from his 2nd Loar.
That cover being off can tear off some buttons and threads off a nice suit!

[Darryl Wolfe]

As usual..f5loar is correct...I agree with Tommy that at some point we saw a picture or we were actually inspecting the instrument and decided that it most likely did have gold parts. Other indications that support the gold part theory (not necessarily 1923 parts) are that the instrument originally was equipped with a slightly later than 1923 pickguard....and what original finish that is present has a peculiar similary to the early 1925 mandolins..Point being..it appears that his mando might be one of those signed on July 9 '23 mandos, but the finish and parts are from a slightly later era (when the parts were always gold). Again just a theory based on some slight indications.