Buying tips

[Jonathan Peck]

I've been getting into playing some Bach pieces, a very nice (and welcome) change to playing bluegrass all the time. My mandolin is set up for bluegrass and I'm looking to find something that I can set-up to be easier on my fingers to play classical pieces on. I would like to find something playable with a straight neck decent sound and volume. Any advice on where to look and what to look for is appreciated.

Thanks
-jonathan

[Bob A]

Bowlbacks are nice, and typically not too expensive. Finding an old one in playable condition is not too hard, but you'd be well advised to check with folks here regarding condition and playability.

Lyon & Healy carved-top instruments are a very nice way to go for a sound that is close to the bowlback tonality, but with body styles that would be easier to get used to than a bowl. They come in 2 cale lengths, 13" and 14". (Typical bowlback scale is about 13"). Possibly the best all-round instrument, IMO. They run from about $1100 for a style C to 3500 for the style A. Differences are cosmetic; they all typically sound alike.

US bowlbacks can be had for reasonable prices, and even some old Italians are not too dear. Figure on about 500, though bargains do turn up.

Stringing on bowlbacks s much lighter than bluegrass instruments, as you may be aware. In fact, one can wreck a bowlback by using the strings typically available in music stores. This is one of the problems with the older ones: many have been trashed by oversttringing. Finding a luthier who is qualified to repair bowlbacks is not easy, since so few in the US have any experience.

Ebay is a good source, but again you have to know what you're doing to play in that sandbox. Of course, folks here are able and willing to advise and assist.

[Fliss]

Jonathan, I'd suggest that the "Bowlbacks of Note" thread in this forum is the best place to find a good mandolin for classical music. #Watch out for the ones people flag up as being worth looking at, and if in doubt, ask. #

But I'd also suggest that you should find a good luthier near you who can do any necessary repairs, in case you buy one that needs a small amount of tlc.

Fliss

[Jonathan Peck]

Thanks, there's a violin shop in my neighborhood (David Segal) where the owner/luthier plays classical mandolin. It's probably a good idea to stop in to see if he will take a look at whatever I wind up with.

[Chris Biorkman]

Jonathan,

Have you ever played a Phoenix? Might be worth checking out. Rolfe's mandolins are great and I have yet to play anything that comes close to them as far as playability is concerned. They are very easy on the fingers. Fretting is almost effortless. I think there is a neoclassical model in the classifieds right now. No financial interest by the way.

[Jonathan Peck]

Hi Chris,

I'm trying to get in under $500-. I've heard good things about Phoenix, but they're out of my budget right now and I would like to find a good sounding vintage oval hole instrument.

Another option would be to put light strings on my Kimble. It would be nice to not have to apply so much pressure to fret, and laying down a finger to barre multiple strings is just painful, but I guess I'll build up some tougher skin in time.

[Jonathan Peck]

Any opinions on this one DeMureda

[Bob A]

The De Mureda looks like a decent Vinaccia-style mandolin. A few bits of pearl are no big deal. The important question is the action (about 2mm at 12th fret) and fret condition (buzzing anywhere?) and tuner operation (a real problem to fix if they're shot). Asking those questions before bidding would be desireable. Looks like the bidding is over. Did you bid? Win?

[seanonabutton]

playing bach on a bluegrass set up instrument is extremely doable. it'll actually probably make your bluegrass playing better in the process by improving your technique... i do it quite a bit I.E. the signature. just trying to offer a cheaper alternative

[Jonathan Peck]

I did win it. The seller said the neck is straight and the condition is playable, sound is warm and not harsh. I hope the action and tuners are good.

[carlnut]

Jonathan, I have a 1930' s Regal mandolin that I will sell for what I have invested in it, $110.00 plus actual shipping costs. It looks to be in pretty good shape. The back has been off and a repair made by someone in 1963. It has a few marks on the top but no cracks. the strings should be replaced with something lighter so I have it detuned so as not to stress the instrument. I have played it but it just don't suit me for bluegrass.It is loud and has alot of sustain.If you want, I can have my daughter email you some pictures.It will be Thursday night before I can do that.

[Jonathan Peck]

Hey Sean,

Playing on my "f" is something I'll be doing alot of. My "f' goes wherever I go, and I doubt the bowlback will ever leave the house. I am looking forward to recieving the bowlback and I'm hoping that it's wider neck, shorter scale, light gauge strings and round sound hole will be something that I'll enjoy.

[Bob A]

Congrats on the win. Nice 100 year old mandolin.

First thing, get some good strings. Dogal Calace rw92b are nice and light and available at bernunzio.com; some prefer Lenzner's "Consort" set. They're harder to find, and I think they've changed names since I laid in a supply. GHS makes a "classical" set suitable for bowlbacks, and cheap. Some loathe them, I think they're not so bad.

I assume you're gonna have the thing looked over by a luthier; might as well provide him with a new set of strings so he can get the setup maximised from the start. If it were mine I'd go with Lenzners, but it's not.

You may need new picks as well, if you're used to the Dawg-style heavies. They aren't really suited for bowlbacks.

And of course, welcome to the Order of the Bowl.

[Bob A]

Oh yeah. Expect it to take you a couple months to get used to holding the thing. Don't panic, it will come.

One of the nice things about bowlbacks is the fact that so little of it comes in contact with your body, unlike the Gibson types, that need a toneguard to keep you from smothering half the sound.

[Fliss]

Congratulations on the purchase! It looks to be in really good condition. As Bob says, light gauge strings for this baby, and you should be ready to go. I suggest getting a piece of non-slip mat to hold it in place when you play.

I think you'll have some fun with that little mando

Fliss

[CraigF]

... it's wider neck ...

Bowlbacks typically have narrower necks. Did you get the dimensions on this from the seller?

[Jonathan Peck]

Can someone point out some of the obvious and less obvious differences, advantages/dissadvantages between flat backs and bowlbacks. Sorry for the uninformed question, but I would love to hear some opinions.

[billkilpatrick]

i have a perfectly lovely bowlback sitting in it's case, alas - i wish i liked it more than i do. i also have a flatback that is rarely out of my hands - a mid-missouri M-4 made by mike dulak. comparing the two, i would say the flatback is more comfortable to hold; easier to play (wider neck): has more projection, tone and variety of tone, etc., etc.. its only drawback - to those less favorable to a calvinistic sense of beauty - is its plain, unadorned - some may say stark - loveliness.

your demureda looks wonderful, by the way - complimenti - bill

[Fliss]

Can someone point out some of the obvious and less obvious differences, advantages/dissadvantages between flat backs and bowlbacks.

Hey Jonathan, I've just realised that was you I just got an email from

I suppose the obvious difference is that bowlbacks have a bowl-shaped back and flat backs have flat (or sometimes arched) backs. Bowlbacks tend to be narrower (if you look at them front on) and almost always have oval or round holes. Antique bowlbacks like your De Mureda tend to be lightly built, and need careful handling because they're so old anyway, so you really need to use only light gauge strings with them.

Flatbacks are easier to hold - bowlbacks, because of the curved back, tend to slide around, hence the reason many people use non-slip mats to help hold them in place.

Fliss

[Bob A]

Flatbacks have a larger table, which changes the tone somewhat. Also there's the issue of how much of the body is in contact with your belly, which also has an effect.

It took me six months to feel perfectly at home with a bowl. Now I can switch between styles with no problems.

[Jonathan Peck]

I did win it. The seller said the neck is straight and the condition is playable, sound is warm and not harsh. I hope the action and tuners are good.

a sad day this is. I waited six weeks and paid $300- for this mandolin. It arrived and is unplayable. I hate liars.

[brunello97]

Oh no, Jonathan, I just read through the entire thread waiting for the happy ending. What is the issue with the de Mureda? A problem with the neck? The bridge? Hopefully there is a way to a good fix.

Mick

[Jonathan Peck]

The mandolin came wrapped in bubble wrap and paper in its cardboard case. Amazingly, there was no damage in shipping. I could see before I tuned it up that the neck is pulled up where the neck meets the body. When I tuned it up, the action is high at the 12th fret. I didn't measure it, but it was more than 1/4" and probably closer to 3/8". When I started to tune it up, I noticed that the tuners hold, but that the shafts are pulled towards the nut and the plates are separating from the headstock and the screws pulling out. The headstock has cracks at the tuning shafts. The bridge looks OK. I tried to play it and it just buzzes out. I de-tuned it and put it away.

[Bob A]

Disappointing. Perhaps the seller will take it back? Repair is possible but probably pricey, alas.

Reminds me of my second Salsedo, which I got from the UK. The instrument was "recentl;y restored", which should have been a warning sign, but I was so taken with the idea of another Salsedo that I took the plunge. Apparently the seller's concept of restoration was "slather the top with varnish using a paintbrush". So it goes. Action was also high. Eventually it will be returned to playable condition, perhaps.

[RSW]

Sorry to hear of this purchase gone bad... I had a couple of lemons in the past via eBay, it can really ruin your day. You can never ask too many questions or see too many photos. Hopefully the mandolin will look half decent hanging on the wall or perhaps you can find some fledgling luthier who will reset the neck for something that doesn't make the purchase totally insane. The back (bowl) looks nice, so it deserves a future.