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Thread: Goichberg mandocello studies

  1. #51
    Registered User Classicalcomp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    That looks like my copy of the Goichberg. It’s still technically under copyright, but I don’t know if anyone took over the assets to plucked string editions. It’s definitely no longer available for sale and the number of copies in the wild are not very prevalent.

    I know I talked to The original copyist for this book, and with my last contact he didn’t have any of the additional manuscripts. If Fannie has them, I already offered to do all of the typesetting free of charge and release the second volume of the book since it would be wonderful to have the complete set. In fact, any manuscripts I know we’d all be happy to archive digitally for the future to ensure their continuity for future generations.
    (I was) my own teacher and pupil, and thanks to the efforts
    of both, they were not discontented with each other. -- Segovia

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  2. #52
    Registered User thecelloronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Classicalcomp View Post
    That looks like my copy of the Goichberg. It’s still technically under copyright, but I don’t know if anyone took over the assets to plucked string editions. It’s definitely no longer available for sale and the number of copies in the wild are not very prevalent.

    I know I talked to The original copyist for this book, and with my last contact he didn’t have any of the additional manuscripts. If Fannie has them, I already offered to do all of the typesetting free of charge and release the second volume of the book since it would be wonderful to have the complete set. In fact, any manuscripts I know we’d all be happy to archive digitally for the future to ensure their continuity for future generations.
    Would that original copyist be Terry Pender? We've been in touch, and he has offered to rummage through his archives for anything of relevance. Should hear back this weekend.
    Pomeroy #244 Custom Mandocello - "Liuto Americano"
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  3. #53
    Registered User Classicalcomp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Yeah, that’s who it was. He had said he never had the second 50. He thought the original 50 came from Neil Gladd (another awesome guy) with corrections and fingerings. This was back in 2016. I don’t think Neil ever got back with him because we left it at that it looks like. My hope is someone in the family would have them or have given them to someone to take care of.
    (I was) my own teacher and pupil, and thanks to the efforts
    of both, they were not discontented with each other. -- Segovia

    Lawrence Smart Stern 2-point Mandolin
    Lawrence Smart Stern 2-point Mandola
    Weber Gallatin Mandocello
    Weber Gallatin Soprano (Piccolo) Mandolin
    Breedlove Prototype Mandolin

  4. #54
    Registered User thecelloronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Classicalcomp View Post
    Yeah, that’s who it was. He had said he never had the second 50. He thought the original 50 came from Neil Gladd (another awesome guy) with corrections and fingerings. This was back in 2016. I don’t think Neil ever got back with him because we left it at that it looks like. My hope is someone in the family would have them or have given them to someone to take care of.
    Hah, it's funny, Terry mentioned he remembered fielding a similar request to mine some years back... must have been you! He also mentioned Neil Gladd. Have you tried to reach out to Neil? I'll do so if not.
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  5. #55
    Registered User Classicalcomp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    I believe I tried him directly but I never heard back from him. I know he’s busy. He’s on the site sometimes.
    (I was) my own teacher and pupil, and thanks to the efforts
    of both, they were not discontented with each other. -- Segovia

    Lawrence Smart Stern 2-point Mandolin
    Lawrence Smart Stern 2-point Mandola
    Weber Gallatin Mandocello
    Weber Gallatin Soprano (Piccolo) Mandolin
    Breedlove Prototype Mandolin

  6. #56
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Classicalcomp View Post
    If Fannie has them, I already offered to do all of the typesetting free of charge and release the second volume of the book since it would be wonderful to have the complete set. In fact, any manuscripts I know we’d all be happy to archive digitally for the future to ensure their continuity for future generations.
    I believe that Fannie (Sol's wife) passed away in 2005. I think you would have to be get in touch with the children. When I was in the NY Mandolin Orchestra (in the 1980s) she was still playing in the first mandolin section on a lovely Lyon & Healy A.
    Jim

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  8. #57
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    " I may try to reach out to the surviving Goichbergs in time as well. I will keep y'all updated when and if anything comes through. "

    I did hear from Goichberg's daughter when I was searching materials for last year's CMSA Solo Mandocello session. She said she did not have copies but was happy to grant permission for use. I did not want to start a chain of hungry mandocello players contacting her, so I did not (and will not) post a lot of personal contact information. Again, she did not have copies, so that line of search would probably be fruitless.

  9. #58
    Registered User thecelloronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Imhoff View Post
    " I may try to reach out to the surviving Goichbergs in time as well. I will keep y'all updated when and if anything comes through. "

    I did hear from Goichberg's daughter when I was searching materials for last year's CMSA Solo Mandocello session. She said she did not have copies but was happy to grant permission for use. I did not want to start a chain of hungry mandocello players contacting her, so I did not (and will not) post a lot of personal contact information. Again, she did not have copies, so that line of search would probably be fruitless.
    I have to laugh at the idea of there being hordes hungry of mandocello players period That said, I can definitely understand your rationale here, and appreciate the perspective. The only reason I might still want to reach out is in case she has some insight as to WHO MAY have that volume. Surely someone's got to know, right?
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    "Although it is a wonderful resource, there are a few typos (at least in the Edition from Plucked Strings). For example, in Study 7, bar 6 takes you up the A string, and you shift from the second finger on an A note (fret 12), to the first finger on fret 14 (B). Fair enough, it feels like he is preparing you to play something even higher. However, the first note in bar 7 is the C, a seventh BELOW the B that you just shifted UP to play. It's pretty clear that the next two bars should be played up an octave -- but where are you supposed to come back down?

    Similarly, in study 9, measure 9, the last 3 notes are D, G (a fifth lower) and D again (played on the 5 frets of the A and D strings. However, the fingering is given as 1-4-1 (which seems a little strange). Bars 11 and 12 are identical to 9 and 10, except that the last 3 notes in bar 11 are D, B flat (instead of G, so the next space up on the Tenor staff), and D. I am guessing that Bar 9 contains a typo (and the G should be a B flat -- as the fingering would then be logical)."

    As I am working on these, I am reviving this thread.

    I agree w/David that there are typos/errata but I think the number is run of the mill for published mandolin-family music. Re: study #7, I respectfully disagree, I think the music is correct as written (and is perfectly playable and musical as written). Re: study #9, I agree completely w/David's correction, and play it as such on my video of the piece.
    Robert A. Margo

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    "The Goichberg mandocello studies are pretty good workout. I really wish that there was a commentary to go along with them, to explain what each of the studies is trying to teach."

    "They're very advanced, and almost like excerpts versus actual composed studies. I'd guess a lot of them were adapted from Cello Music due to the extreme ranges some get into."

    Any commentary here is speculative, but I believe that Goichberg's purpose here was to focus sharply on a variety of technical/musical issues that would arise if an experienced mandocellist were interested in playing the kinds of classical arrangements and string quartets that the MandoArt Quartet had in its repertoire. The etudes put a premium on the ability to rapidly shift up and down the neck -- really, a complete command of the MC fretboard, at any relevant tempo -- w/the sort of melodic phrasing that would come naturally to a well trained violoncellist. This is not "unaccompanied mandocello" in the sense that Bickford meant in his method. As I have mentioned before, Goichberg was academically trained as a violoncellist at a conservatory level, and so would have been familiar with the cello etude literature as well as the relevant chamber and orchestral music; the Bach cello suites (one movement is arranged as an etude in the book) and, very likely, other works for unaccompanied cello (perhaps the Reger suites, maybe Kodaly). That he chose to write his own etudes suggests he really did have a specific purpose and audience in mind.
    Robert A. Margo

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    "Are there any recordings of these? I would love to check them out."

    I am in the process of making YouTube videos of a selection of the Goichberg studies. Here is my current playlist. I will add to the playlist as I make new videos.
    Robert A. Margo

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    "One thing that has puzzled me about the Goichberg studies, is the appropriate use of tremolo ... Who knows what the performance practice was when the studies were written -- I suspect that a "historically informed performance" would probably use much more."

    Extant recordings of the MandoArt Quartet (I only know of one, a rehearsal recording) suggest quite liberal use of tremolo by today's standards, although not as much, perhaps, as was common in the early twentieth century, as evidence for example, by recordings of the Place Mandolin Quartet just before WWI. I personally use a lot of tremolo in playing the Goichberg studies -- for example, I generally interpret the long slurs as tremolo -- and believe this was his intention.
    Robert A. Margo

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Not sure which "Jim" Dr Margo is referencing here, but...
    I have the Goichberg and Bickford mandocello books in pdf. The Bickford is edited into modern bass clef by Ben Ash, and he expressly allowed me permission to share at CMSA. I will check with him again about posting here. (Ben, maybe you're reading this?)
    On the Goichberg, I messaged with his daughter and she was quite happy that people were interested in her father's book, and approved for CMSA presentation. I am less certain about copyright on that, but I have copy.
    Jim (the Imhoff one, not the Garber guy)
    Jim

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    [QUOTE=Jim Imhoff;1856146]Not sure which "Jim" Dr Margo is referencing here, but...[quote]

    I am puzzled by my own entry here, sorry Bob; seems out of place, maybe I was looking at an earlier post, it's a long thread.

    Anyway, I do have Goichberg and Bickford, have been contacted private or email-wise by a few people. That would be my preference rather than posting here.
    Jim

    Dr James S Imhoff
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