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Thread: Goichberg mandocello studies

  1. #1

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    A friend bought me the book and these are great studies! I get bored with our Mandolin Orchestra music--it's not much more of a challenge sometimes than the classical double bass parts I'm used to playing. You know, brain dead, then suddenly you're incredibly busy for 4 measures, then easy again. Well, these are quite different. Each one has a goal, whether it be a plectrum stroke, a key signature or whatever, but they aren't boring. Warning--they are in bass and often tenor or alto clef. Very melodic! Available through the folks who took over from Norman and sell on eBay, the name escapes me at the moment.
    "There are two refuges from the miseries of life--music and cats" Albert Schweitzer

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    I have one as well, but I'm brand new to 'cello so I needed a more basic introduction before tackling this book. The bass clef is coming along though.

    <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Studies-For-the-Mandocello-Book-New_W0QQitemZ160184839645QQihZ006QQcategoryZ43392Q QrdZ1QQs
    sPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewI tem" target="_blank">Mandocello Studies</a>

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    Registered User David Westwick's Avatar
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    The Goichberg mandocello studies are pretty good workout. I really wish that there was a commentary to go along with them, to explain what each of the studies is trying to teach. Sometimes it is fairly obvious. In some cases, I was left scratching my head. One neat effect, was that some of the techniques (gliding pick strokes, extensions, shifts, etc) started working their way into my regular playing, more or less automatically.

    The book goes up the neck very quickly, (it is already using treble clef, played at pitch, in the third study, Tenor clef makes its first appearance in number 6). The studies are marked with pick directions, fingerings (and the odd string number as well). These indications are really useful when you are trying to find the "hidden lessons" in some of the studies.

    Although it is a wonderful resource, there are a few typos (at least in the Edition from Plucked Strings). For example, in Study 7, bar 6 takes you up the A string, and you shift from the second finger on an A note (fret 12), to the first finger on fret 14 (B). Fair enough, it feels like he is preparing you to play something even higher. However, the first note in bar 7 is the C, a seventh BELOW the B that you just shifted UP to play. It's pretty clear that the next two bars should be played up an octave -- but where are you supposed to come back down?

    Similarly, in study 9, measure 9, the last 3 notes are D, G (a fifth lower) and D again (played on the 5 frets of the A and D strings. However, the fingering is given as 1-4-1 (which seems a little strange). Bars 11 and 12 are identical to 9 and 10, except that the last 3 notes in bar 11 are D, B flat (instead of G, so the next space up on the Tenor staff), and D. I am guessing that Bar 9 contains a typo (and the G should be a B flat -- as the fingering would then be logical).

    I have found a few others. To me, the more significant problem is that the typos that I have found tend to sow a little doubt about the accuracy of the rest of the book. When I come across something that seems a little strange, it is very tempting to write it off as just another typo. More often than not, if an indication (pick stroke, fingering) seems odd, it's because Goichberg was trying to illustrate a particular, perhaps somewhat unusual, technical point.

    One thing that has puzzled me about the Goichberg studies, is the appropriate use of tremolo. Given how carefully every other detail is marked, I find it odd that he didn't indicated tremolo (except for a couple of studies that focus specifically on a short tremolo). Any suggestions, Yvonne?
    David Westwick.

  5. #4

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    No, David, haven't had it that long(a week or so), but I had already wondered about tremolo...being that it's one of my problems that I should work on more. But I thought I might add it in on my own in places. I wondered if it was implied by the longer notes as was the style. BTW, have you ever played a piece "Canadian Capers" by good old Bickford? We are doing it in DMO and it has a pretty cool cello part--it's kind of a tremolo etude on its own! Yvonne
    "There are two refuges from the miseries of life--music and cats" Albert Schweitzer

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    Registered User David Westwick's Avatar
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    I guess it comes down to how you interpret the long slurs -- one could interpret them as phrasing marks, but not necessarily tremolo. I find that if I take that approach, I play very little tremolo (much in keeping with a more modern use of tremolo). Who knows what the performance practice was when the studies were written -- I suspect that a "historically informed performance" would probably use much more. More to the point, some of the studies may have been written specifically to work on playing smooth tremolo over string crossings, through position shifts, etc. If Goichberg assumed the rampant use of tremolo throughout, then there wouldn't have been any need to specify tremolo, even when it is central to the techniques being developed. Again, some commentary about the studies would have gone a long way towards addressing this.
    David Westwick.

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Raising this thread from the dead...

    It looks like the Plucked Strings ebay seller has discontinued their EBay store. Does anyone know where a copy of the Goichberg mandocello studies can be obtained today? (Store or online.)

    Similarly, any source of the Bickford Mandocello Book available?
    2011 Weber Special Edition Oval Hole
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Alibris has one Goichberg book listed here.

    Is it possible that this Bickford method sold for $355 on ebay? Insane! It can't be that good.

    Another thread on the same topic is here. According to this thread -- and I have no reason to doubt its veracity -- I own a copy of the Bickford method. As noted it is written in universal notation.
    Jim

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    Registered User Classicalcomp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Trying to restart this thread. Does anyone know where I can find a copy of these studies. I'm really dying for some Mandocello specific studies/etudes/music and I would love to see these studies. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    You can request it via the Library of Congress http://lccn.loc.gov/99480080 obviously that's a hard copy to read rather than anything on line. It says
    Request in Performing Arts Reading Room (Madison, LM113) I'm not sure if they would move the book to local libraries or how the system there works. There's only one copy there.
    Eoin



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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Yeah unfortunately you can only view it there. I'm hoping someone might want to part with their copy or allow for some scholarly copying since its out of print.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Stay tuned. I may have permission to make quality coil-bound copies. I should know soon.
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  14. #12

    Question Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Stay tuned. I may have permission to make quality coil-bound copies. I should know soon.

    Hello Jim! Has there been any movement on this? I for one would be very interested in any sort of copy of this mandocello method book, whether copies or PDFs. I would buy it too, if anyone has one. The only copy I can find is at the LOC in DC.

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Sachon View Post
    Hello Jim! Has there been any movement on this? I for one would be very interested in any sort of copy of this mandocello method book, whether copies or PDFs. I would buy it too, if anyone has one. The only copy I can find is at the LOC in DC.
    Not sure if it's the same book/studies, but you might be able to find something closer via WorldCat.

    http://www.worldcat.org/title/thirty...=brief_results

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow Wilson View Post
    Not sure if it's the same book/studies, but you might be able to find something closer via WorldCat.

    http://www.worldcat.org/title/thirty...=brief_results
    That is the book of etudes for mandolin, not mandocello. It is, however, excellent. I highly recommend it.

    I do have permission from the editor of the Mandocello book to scan it. I have to repair my scanning capabilities but could do this if anyone is still interested.
    Jim

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    I'd be very interested Jim.
    Let me know how to compensate you for your time/ help with the scanning repair cost.
    Eoin



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  19. #16

    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Hi Jim, I too am very interested in a scan of the Goichberg Mandocello Etudes, and I'm happy to compensate you too! Thank you!

  20. #17

    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Hey Jim, I'm also happy to scan the etude book myself, if that's helpful at all!

  21. #18
    Registered User Classicalcomp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Great news. Found a copy and should have it in a few weeks. Can't wait to get into the book.
    (I was) my own teacher and pupil, and thanks to the efforts
    of both, they were not discontented with each other. -- Segovia

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    Registered User Classicalcomp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (I was) my own teacher and pupil, and thanks to the efforts
    of both, they were not discontented with each other. -- Segovia

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Goichberg was a conservatory trained cellist and his training definitely influenced his approach to plucked strings, whether the mandolin or mandocello. By the time he wrote these Goichberg was already getting on in years and he was concentrating heavily on his MandoArts quartet, which specialized in playing the string quartet literature.

    The cello studies (I have played them) are well-written miniatures and they certainly fill a gap in the basically non-existent original literature (even if one counts, as I do, Calace's various pieces for liuto). The few arrangements in the book from the classical literature, however, are quite dated (especially the Bach gavotte) and the pieces are really too short to serve as concert material. Certainly if one can play the Goichberg studies with appropriate fluency and musicality this would represent a high performance standard on the instrument but a good deal of what he covers -- fluency in tenor clef, for example, has little or no relevance on the mandocello, unless, the goal is to be able to play the cello parts in any of the standard string quartet repertoire up to, say, Dvorak. But if that is the goal, one would be better off studying the actual cello, because the music sounds much better on the instrument for which it was written.
    Robert A. Margo

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  25. #21

    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    I am interested in finding a copy, or a PDF, or even just photocopies! I'd love to play these pieces.

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    I would be happy to make a scan if we can figure out who owns the copyright on it and get permission to do so. i know plucked strings editions ceased operations, but Jim seems to know someone involved with the editing of it. I think it's worthwhile to be out there for people to have access to as it's the only set of etudes for the mandocello in the library of congress.

    Also Jim, since you know the editor, there was supposed to be another edition of these according to the books introduction. Does anyone know where we could find manuscripts for all of the etudes? If someone could, I'd be happy to donate my time engraving them and giving them back to the copyright holder if they'll make them available for sale or even if they don't want to sell them, make them available through the mandolin cafe for a donation to the cafe.
    (I was) my own teacher and pupil, and thanks to the efforts
    of both, they were not discontented with each other. -- Segovia

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    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    "Also Jim, since you know the editor, there was supposed to be another edition of these according to the books introduction. Does anyone know where we could find manuscripts for all of the etudes? "

    The PS edition of vol. 1 of the Goichberg studies was prepared by Terry Pender, who is the Associate Director of the computer music studio at Columbia University. He clearly worked from the original manuscript because he says so in an article published in the Mandolin Quarterly (September 1999, vol. 4, no. 3). Pender's email can be found at his academic website (google him).

    One of Goichberg's daughters (Rena, I don't know if he had another) is on FB (search for her). Perhaps she has access to the manuscripts. It is thought that a large number of Goichberg manuscripts are held by Alan Jacobson, a former member of the Seattle Mandolin Orchestra, who lives in Seattle. Alan is also on FB.
    Robert A. Margo

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  29. #24

    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    I would also be interested in picking up a copy (or another instruction manual) if someone can point me in the right direction. Google has not been much help.

  30. #25

    Default Re: Goichberg mandocello studies

    Hello Jim,

    I would definitely be interested if you are willing. I would compensate of course.

    Wes

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