Bridge

[TEE]

I have been looking at bridges on the internet and I am wondering about the tallboy bridge. My mandolin neck angle is set to where I have always had to jack the bridge up with a lot of screwthreads showing on the thumbwheels. While looking on Janet Davis website I noticed there is a tallboy bridge option. Has anybody tried these? Would the extra size or weight affect the tone? I can use the standard but it always looks like it is too high.

I also like pretty low action and I have noticed if I lower it too much I get fret buzz. There is no neck relief on the mandolin, so would reducing truss rod tension add a little relief? In other words does it work in reverse?

[Doug Edwards]

I tried a CA tall boy saddle for the same reason as you. It was about 1/8" thicker. Steve also had a tall base that was thicker as well. I used it for about a year. At a mandolin workshop in Argyle, I had Dave Harvey look at the set up. He recommended I go back to the regular bridge to improve the vibration, volume and tone. I asked him about the amount of threads showing and he showed me his mandolin. Just as much if not more on his.

As long as there is enough thread to keep the saddle from leaning you are OK.

[300win]

Look at Jesse McReynolds mandolin, the blonde finish one he plays. It has more screwthreads showing than any I've ever seen. Heck of a good sounding mandolin though, not sure who built it. A friend of mine has picked it before, and he told me it had a tremendous neck angle, which explains the high bridge.

[mandoscotia]

I was just thinking about this question the other day. Used to play a Michael Kelly. The bridge was really cranked up (lots of threads showing) Thought it might be just mine so I checked out the 4 or 5 that were in stores here in Halifax. All of them were the same. Wonder if it is a brand thing?

Nathan

[Fretbear]

It's not about how much the threads are showing, it's about how much thread is left in the saddle holes. I have a CA tall-boy with a single-foot base and I love it. I also have a steep neck angle and my previous bridge saddle was almost not engaging the threads when I had the action where I wanted it. That can be a dangerous situation, if you were to push the saddle sideways, there is nothing retaining it in it's position except the string pressure.
Steve's bridge's are excellent.

[deadsteam]

What are the measurements on the tall bridges measuring from the sound board to the top of the bridge?

[Fretbear]

What are the measurements on the tall bridges measuring from the sound board to the top of the bridge?

About 1" with the possibility of raising it a very small amount more.

[Red Henry]

For years, I played Randy Wood #1 with a regular adjustable bridge on it. The saddle was just placed on top of the bass-side thumbwheel, with just enough post protruding under it to keep it from sliding (less than 1 thread), though there were about 2 or 3 threads keeping the treble end in place. I had to pay attention to the saddle when changing strings (always a good idea), but mostly I ignored it and the mandolin always sounded great.

So don't worry if the saddle is near the top of the screws, but just keep it in place and standing straight up. On the other hand, if you need an adjustable bridge to be even higher and you actually run out of screw-threads, it's a good thing that Steve's taller saddles are available.

Keep in mind that any weight you add in wood (bigger base or saddle, as Doug noted) or metal (bigger thumbwheels, mentioned in a related topic) may alter the sound slightly.

Another option is to make your own maple bridge, to whatever height you need. It's not very difficult, and you'll obtain maple's benefits in tone and volume at the same time as achieving the extra height. Plus, you can make yourself several maple bridges for less $$ than one adjustable bridge would cost.


Red.

[Steevarino]

Hi All,

Fret Bear is "Spot On", as our friends the Brits might say, about his comments regarding the threaded posts in the bridge base. #I am still recovering from exhibiting my wares at the SPBGMA show last week/weekend. #I didn't do much repair or set-up work there, but one picker showed up with a Luke Thompson built F-5 that someone had put one of my bridges on, somewhere along the line. #I have never seen a bridge that was pitched so far forward as this one. #Everyone was saying that the posts were bent. #Knowing how strong those posts are, I figured otherwise. When I tore it all down (right there at my show table) I saw that someone had unthreaded the posts almost all the way out of the base. They weren't bent, as much as they were "mashed forward" in the holes. #Fortunately, since they were placed so shallow in the holes, I was able to replace them with some longer posts that I had with me, that connected with some undamaged threaded hole below the "mashed" part. #That improvement, coupled with a Tall Boy saddle, which I also happened to have with me, seemed to do the job.

Of course, I could have done a better fix if I had the instrument in my shop, but the fellow turns out to be a local picker, and said he'd stop by soon, as the instrument had a couple of other small issues as well.

By the way, if you ever get a chance to meet Luke Thompson, he is quite a character. #Lots of storied about Gibson lore, including his work with Charlie D. and the restoration work they did for Monroe. #He's always got a table at the same place at SPBGMA, and plenty of pictures and articles saved over the years to help him tell his stories!

Steve Smith
www.CumberlandAcoustic.com

[uncle ken]

I have switched all my instruments over to Steve's bridges because of the big improvement in sound. To get the best possible conduction, or whatever you want to call it, I screw the rods down using an allen wrench as tight as I can get it. I also make sure the base has an airtight fit using that Stew Mac jig and lots of sanding using three stages of paper. One other thing I found that seems to make a difference is sanding some material from the top of the base, removing mass. I think too heavy of a base acts as a mute.

[billhay4]

You need to be sure, if you are going to screw the posts down as tight as possible, that the bridge doesn't have holes all the way through the base as some do.
Removing some of the base is often done and there are those who think making sure the base has a gap in the center that does not touch the top is good, too.
All that being said, no one has commented on the fact that a high bridge means a sharp string angle and thus more pressure on the top. This may or may not produce a louder sound, but it also may produce too much stress on the top. Staying within a narrow range is a good way to go. This means, of course, that the neck angle and top curve have to be carefully considered when the instrument is built.
Bill

[Red Henry]

Right-- I have seen some mandolins with dimples in the top from screws that had been allowed to protrude downward from the bridge base. Not a good thing.

Higher bridges can increase volume, but only up to a point. Too high a bridge seems to put too much string pressure on the top, thus restricting it a bit.

Good point, too, about the muting possible from bridge weight. Some adjustable bridges I have measured weighed between 11 and 13 grams, compared with Gibson's old one-piece design at about 9 or 10 grams. No wonder the older instruments had plenty of volume!


Red

[TEE]

Steve I am glad you chimed in. Do you think there is a very noticable difference in tone with the tallboy vs the standard? I need somewhere in the vicinity of 5/8 to 31/32.
Right now I am at about 28/32 but I would never go over an inch.

It is my neck angle that causes this I do not like high action.

Also I like a dark mellow sound anyway I do not like bright sounds. I even hate the sound of new strings. So what tonal changes would you think would happen? I realise that you have not seen the mandolin and I would not hold you to it just what are your general thoughts?

[DougC]

This may be a bit off topic but has anyone made an thumb screw adjustable bridge out of maple?

Also, on violins and I'm guessing mandolins too, the thicker the bridge the more dampening (muting). That can be a good thing because a 'too thin' bridge makes a lot of ringing overtones. The density of the wood/ metal comes into play but there is a sweet spot for every instrument.

[Red Henry]

I believe that Dave Cohen and others have made one or both 2-piece bridge components from maple, with inconclusive results as far as changing the tone was concerned. In past years, someone made saddles for Frank Wakefield from a wide variety of materials including fiberglass, but without (to my ears) changing his bridge's sound very much. (It's mostly in his hands. I think.)

This may indicate that the choice of wood (or fiberglass) in a 2-piece bridge is not critical. So the primary determinant of tone in a 2-piece bridge may be the metal parts, and it may not change greatly unless you put one of those Gibson aluminum saddles on it. That does make a difference, with so much of the bridge's mass at that point being metal.

How about it, experts? Has anyone here made a 2-piece bridge with a tone greatly different from the standard ebony models?

Red

[Red Henry]

PS-- Bridge thickness-- experiments here seem to indicate that if any part of a bridge is much more than 3/8" thick, or if the top is less than 3/16" thick, then the tone starts to thin out. Aside from that, more may depend on a bridge's weight than its thickness.

Red

[craichead]

I believe that Dave Cohen and others have made one or both 2-piece bridge components from maple, with inconclusive results as far as changing the tone was concerned. In past years, someone made saddles for Frank Wakefield from a wide variety of materials including fiberglass, but without (to my ears) changing his bridge's sound very much. (It's mostly in his hands. I think.)

This may indicate that the choice of wood (or fiberglass) in a 2-piece bridge is not critical. So the primary determinant of tone in a 2-piece bridge may be the metal parts, and it may not change greatly unless you put one of those Gibson aluminum saddles on it. That does make a difference, with so much of the bridge's mass at that point being metal.

How about it, experts? Has anyone here made a 2-piece bridge with a tone greatly different from the standard ebony models?

Red

Actually, Frank made those himself in the shop when he was working at GE. Fiberglass and epoxy I believe.

[Doug Edwards]

Steve,

How'd your Redline resonators go over at SPBGMA?