Picks

[djdell]

I know the subject of best picks fo classical mando is completely arbitrary but I was wondering about two things: what is the best sound to try to achieve for a classical repertoire and which picks are most likely to produce that sound.Also are stiff or flixible picks more desirable? I am currently using a Red Bear pick with Thomastik Inhelder strings and it produces a clear ping on the down stroke. Are there other,less expensive alternatives that folks have tried?

[David Lewis]

As for classical I'm not sure, but a thicker proplec pick, like a jazzmando gives a rich tone. I believe, though classical players prefer a pointy end.

I know Thile uses a blue chip, but whether that's because he plays in many genres, or whether it would suit just classical I don't know.

Here's a discussion on picks for a bowl back. Certainly the quill is traditional...

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...for-a-bowlback

[David Lewis]

The standard v-picks or even the chicken pick might also work.

http://v-picks.com/product/chicken-picker/

[DavidKOS]

As for classical I'm not sure, but a thicker proplec pick, like a jazzmando gives a rich tone. I believe, though classical players prefer a pointy end.

Also are stiff or flixible picks more desirable? I am currently using a Red Bear pick with Thomastik Inhelder strings and it produces a clear ping on the down stroke. Are there other,less expensive alternatives that folks have tried?

First, I do not have any archtop carved mandolins, only bowlback and European style flatbacks so what I say may not apply to other type mandolins where people use longer scales and heavier strings.

That said, I tend to use either normal size picks like the Clayton Spike, app. .73mm, pretty stiff and pointed:



or the Pickboy mandolin pick, a bit more flexible but quite good for classical playing:



or other picks like these Fred Kelley Pee Wee delrin, .96mm

http://fredkellypicks.com/product/delrin-pee-wee-flat/

:

No round tips on any of these! Nor am I happy with very thick picks on mandolin, although I use them on Gypsy jazz guitar.


These old Pettine picks are a good model of what I like too:

[vic-victor]

I like Dogal No. 3 picks on bowlbacks. Pickboys are too flexible to my taste. And the current winner is BlueChilp Jazz 35 which produces different sound to Dogal, but is a great all-rounder overall. Takes some technique adjustment to avoid the clicks but works great after that.

[DavidKOS]

I like Dogal No. 3 picks on bowlbacks. Pickboys are too flexible to my taste. And the current winner is BlueChilp Jazz 35 which produces different sound to Dogal, but is a great all-rounder overall. Takes some technique adjustment to avoid the clicks but works great after that.

The Dugal and that particular BC are fine picks too. The BlueChilp Jazz 35 is .89 so it's not too thick.

The Pickboy is a bit more flexible, but even so can produce some sweet tones on my bowlbacks.

[crisscross]

Here in Germany, most bowlback players use a Wolle pick. It's pretty thick but pointed. You have to reshape the pick yourself though. It comes in either soft or hard, but the thickness is the same, just different materials.
Caterina Lichtenberg too plays Wolle picks
I guess she is playing in the German mandolin fashion which seems to prefer a little larger bowlback, flatwound strings and a thicker pick than the Italian pickers.
The aim might be a sound a little closer to classical guitar.

[bratsche]

The more I play, the more I like thick picks. My latest favorite is my V-Picks "Freakishly Large" (which it really isn't, to me) Pointed Triangle, in 2.75mm. I really was prepared to hate it, kind of wishing they had something closer to 2mm, but after getting one of their 1.5mm picks in a package lot through the Classifieds and thinking it just sounded a little too thin, I had to order it. And, surprise - I liked it! It has a very wide, gradual bevel, which is probably why. But generally, 1.5mm is the minimum I'll use, anything under that is useless to me, and I'm using those less than ever, too. I've practiced starting with a few like that for a while, long enough to get used to them, and then switched to a heavier, thicker pick, and I find that everything I was just doing becomes just that more effortless to get the same quality of tone from my mandola, fast passages are easier to articulate, and it is so noticeably less tiring to my hand, as well.

What can I say? I've tried all kinds, but I just like thick picks. I like heavy bows, too - my favorite viola bow is 78 grams, which is in cello bow range for weight... I guess the more work that's done by the tool in my right hand, the less work my hand has to do, other than to guide it ... the tools must have the right balance, of course, but given that, then I prefer they be on the thick/heavy end. (I know, I'm not typical. What else is new?)

bratsche

[DavidKOS]

The more I play, the more I like thick picks. ..... But generally, 1.5mm is the minimum I'll use, anything under that is useless to me, and I'm using those less than ever, too.

bratsche

Interesting. I just posted the picture of all the various classical picks on another and most of the ones I like are between .7 and 1.27 or so mm.

Personal taste varies indeed!

[Purdy Bear]

I'm a total beginner with a Mandolin so bare with me. I have tried a 0.8mm guitar pick and I found the plastic twanged a lot. I then tried a 2.0mm which I liked, but just to test it a bit I tried a 3.00mm today and I really really liked it. To carry on the research I have a few more picks to complete the set coming and hope to try them out.

Don't worry about loss of the picks I've made a very nice felt book with pockets on the inside for the picks, I just need to put them in order and embroider the outside of each pocket with the name.

My Mandolin is a flat back East German A type, and has a beautiful tone.

Ps Does the size of hand make a difference, my female hands are medium sized, so I like the smaller sized picks? I did find the thicker picks were easier to hold without a fear of dropping it into the instruments hole.

PPS For the Quill picks do you prepare them the same way you would for writing - they used to be plunged into heated sand I believe to firm up the tips? I do have some swan feather quills I got from the Swan Sanctuary in Dorset many years ago that I could try out if that was the case. I wonder if other feather quills would work, such as Magpie or crow, or does it have to be a big bird feather ( I regularly see both on my walks with the dog)?

[k0k0peli]

Don't worry about loss of the picks I've made a very nice felt book with pockets on the inside for the picks, I just need to put them in order and embroider the outside of each pocket with the name.

You are so organized! I throw new and old picks and paraphenalia from past decades into a small wood box. I shake the box at irregular intervals and grab an assorted handful of picks for my 'ready' bag, a Guatemalan coin purse loaded with finger/thumb and flat picks, slide, etc for use outside the house. I reach into the bag or box for whatever pick feels right for the moment. It's an unstructured solution that works for me.

[JeffD]

I just bought a Pettine pick of ebay. We'll see what all the talk is about.

[Beanzy]

Ps Does the size of hand make a difference, my female hands are medium sized, so I like the smaller sized picks? I did find the thicker picks were easier to hold without a fear of dropping it into the instruments hole.

PPS For the Quill picks do you prepare them the same way you would for writing - they used to be plunged into heated sand I believe to firm up the tips? I do have some swan feather quills I got from the Swan Sanctuary in Dorset many years ago that I could try out if that was the case. I wonder if other feather quills would work, such as Magpie or crow, or does it have to be a big bird feather ( I regularly see both on my walks with the dog)?

The quill picks will tend to get shredded on a steel strung mandolin, the steel strings are under a good bit of tension and need something decent to drive them. I'm thinking a Quetzalcoatl feather may be your best bet there. However once you get lured by the Mandolin Acquisition Syndrome into buying gut strung or early mandolins it could be a perfect opportunity to start working with the swan feathers.

Hand size seems to matter more with a more open grip rather than with the loosely closed hand grip. Even on small hands the closed grip provides plenty of length of thumb and forefinger to hold across the pick. With a more open grip the large triangle plectrum can seem a bit big and flappy paddle like so a narrower pick can sit better. It really will depend on your grip. A good thickness pick feels better in the closed fist grip than a lighter one to me, but when using narrower picks I like to open up the hand more and have the forefinger transecting the thumb at a slight angle. Even with thick picks I prefer a small narrow point.

[Hany Hayek]

I too only have bowl back mandolins. Guitar picks did not work for me. I used Clayton small tear drop picks (Acetal, Raven and Ultem) 0.8 and .73. But the best picks so far for me are the Dunlop small tear drop 423R 0.88, these produce a wonderful sound.

[JeffD]

The Pettine pick I purchased is far to thin for me. Its thinner than medium.

Its fun to have as an artifact, but until I find one that is a bit thicker I won't be using it regularly.

[vic-victor]

I woun't go over 1mm thickness on a bowlback. Even 1mm is too thick to my taste. The good pick for a bowlback IMO should be thin, but not too flexible. Shape is also important. Personally I do not like the shape of a pettine pick pictured in the post above in the middle. The point gets too much load and flexes more being shaped like that. Wider picks like the ones from the same picture work better for me. Dunlop MIO jazz picks with a twirled point are also not bad, but I find them too pointy (but the points can be trimmed). I guess it is a trial and error process until on finds the right one. BC 35 Jazz is what I play the most now.

[DavidKOS]

I woun't go over 1mm thickness on a bowlback. Even 1mm is too thick to my taste. The good pick for a bowlback IMO should be thin, but not too flexible. Shape is also important. Personally I do not like the shape of a pettine pick pictured in the post above in the middle. The point gets too much load and flexes more being shaped like that. Wider picks like the ones from the same picture work better for me.

I tend to use the Dunlops and the Pickboy more than the Pettines.

I also wish they made the Pickboy mandolin pick in a thicker gauge, too.

[JeffD]

I just ordered some Pickboys, again, to see what all the buzz is about.

[Shelagh Moore]

I tend to play in a variety of genres (but not bluegrass where players are mainly after a quite distinct sound) and find that different picks suit different uses and styles. Most often I use Dunlop Ultems or Primetones in a couple of different gauges. On my Nava 2-point which has a quite refined tone, the most pleasing results so far have come from a V-pick "tremelo" pick.

[DavidKOS]

I just ordered some Pickboys, again, to see what all the buzz is about.

The shape is lovely, they work well on my bowlbacks, but something a bit thicker would be even a bit better.

[domradave]

I was given a gift of a "Dawg" pick on Sunday and used it for a concert with the Long Island Mandolin and Guitar Orchestra. I used it on my guitar and my domra. I think it is a great pick!

[Alex Timmerman]

Perhaps the two pointed Roman plectrum could be something worth to study.



A bit of history about long plectra through the centuries.
Long shaped plectra have the longest history and when we look to the plectra that were used during the development of the instruments strung with metal strings we see that their shapes were thin and long. The first plectrum kind used for metal strung mandolin types were made of a birds feather, usually with a length of approximately 40 mm.

In the 2nd quarter of the 19th century the birds feather quill was gradually replaced by a plectrum made of a piece (shaped like that of a birds feather) of the shield of a turtle. The length was unaltered and stayed like that well into the 20th century. Especially so in and around Rome. The shape had changed a bit; it had developed into a plectrum with two points on both ends.

The Roman mandolin virtuoso Silvio Ranieri perfected it by making it a tad wider in the middle and larger, up to 65 mm long. With this length the Ranieri Roman Plectrum is a very balanced plectrum. The material used to make these plectrum kind used to be tortoiseshell, but nowadays it is celluloid tortoiseshell imitation. The Roman plectrum is not easy to handle, but when studied and learned how to deal with it, it is most rewarding and brings the finest execution of music!

PS. Here Sebastiaan de Grebber performs Raffaele Calace's 'GRAN PRELUDIO' Op.175 for mandolin solo by the Neapolitan composer Raffaele Calace (1863 - 1934) using such a Roman plectrum.



And here is the Dutch mandolin chamber orchestra Het CONSORT performing the Double Mandolin Concerto by Antonio Vivaldi. All the members of the plectrum played instruments in Het CONSORT play with the long two pointed Roman (á la Ranieri) plectrum. The mandolin soloists are Sebastiaan de Grebber and Ferdinand Binnendijk.

I hope you will enjoy the sound ánd, of course, the music.


Best greetings from the Netherlands,

Alex .

[DavidKOS]

Perhaps the two pointed Roman plectrum could be something worth to study.



A bit of history about long plectra through the centuries.
Long shaped plectra have the longest history and when we look to the plectra that were used during the development of the instruments strung with metal strings we see that their shapes were thin and long. The first plectrum kind used for metal strung mandolin types were made of a birds feather, usually with a length of approximately 40 mm.

In the 2nd quarter of the 19th century the birds feather quill was gradually replaced by a plectrum made of a piece (shaped like that of a birds feather) of the shield of a turtle. The length was unaltered and stayed like that well into the 20th century. Especially so in and around Rome. The shape had changed a bit; it had developed into a plectrum with two points on both ends.

The Roman mandolin virtuoso Silvio Ranieri perfected it by making it a tad wider in the middle and larger, up to 65 mm long. With this length the Ranieri Roman Plectrum is a very balanced plectrum. The material used to make these plectrum kind used to be tortoiseshell, but nowadays it is celluloid tortoiseshell imitation. The Roman plectrum is not easy to handle, but when studied and learned how to deal with it, it is most rewarding and brings the finest execution of music!

Interesting - and your points about the feather quill reminds me of our picks, which were feathers, now is a long plastic pick.

I'm still more used to a Neapolitan pick than the Roman one.

[derbex]

I'm thinking a Quetzalcoatl feather may be your best bet there. However once you get lured by the Mandolin Acquisition Syndrome into buying gut strung or early mandolins it could be a perfect opportunity to start working with the swan feathers.
.

I want a picture of you playing with the feather of a Resplendant Quetzal. Do swan feathers belong to the Queen or is it just the edible bits?

FWIW I am using Dava Jazz Grips at the moment on the bowl back and flat back, I can't really tell the difference between the red and orange, like the yellow less.

I use Dunlop Jazz IIIs on the archtop and mandola. All pointy.

[brunello97]

Good stuff, Alex, as Johnny Carson used to say. Thanks for the vid links. Nice to see those two vatos playing together. Pretty good recording sound, too. Some nice evening music tonight.....

Mick