V neck joints

[David Houchens]

I have a mandolin I'm repairing which has THE GIBSON inlay on the peghead and both labels inside. This is supposed to be a 1981 F5L. It is definately not the nicest looking mandolin I've seen. Scroll binding is a little wacky. Then, while removing the fingerboard to reset the neck I see it's a tapered V joint like the one in Siminoff's book without the dowels. I wasn't sure if Gibson ever used this joint. I was wondering if it wasn't an early Hutto or something. Do any of you know if Gibson used this joint and when.

Thanks David

[sunburst]

I think an '81 would have bolts. (?)

[Drew L]

Along these lines, I've taken a passive interest in comparing violin and mandolin construction (I'm just starting my 2nd instrument). #I noticed that violins use a basic "V". #No dovetail, no dowels, no bolts. #Is there a reason why this joint is not suitable--or at least not typically used--for a mandolin? #Is it due to the difference in string tension?

[sunburst]

Mostly, tradition.
Violins have been built that way ever since shortly after baroque times, If I'm not mistaken, and though there was some borrowing of violin construction methods in the development of carved top mandolins, the dovetail neck joint came from other traditions like those of steel string guitar builders.
While some builders do use a mortise and tenon more like a violin neck joint, the eight relatively heavy strings of the mandolin put more stress on the neck joint, so most builders still use a dovetail, dowel the mortise and tenon, or use a hardware joint.

[Big Joe]

Gibson did not use the mortise/tenon with a bolt until 1987. Before that it was a myriad of different mortise and tenon attempts and none of them being all that great or accurately cut from the late 60's forward.

[testore]

Being a violin maker I have used a violin style neck joint on all my mandos. It's twice as deep as a violin neck and even deeper than a cello neck. Well fitted, it works great, as does any well fitted joint.