Mando builder-info, daily stuff, accomplishments

[sunburst]

Darryl, you haven't fixed that yet?!

[Darryl Wolfe]

Nope..it continues to lay in a pile

[james condino]

I'll add a bit of extra on the hot hide glue use. Since many folks shops are cooler in the winter, the short gel time with hide glue doesn't leave a lot of room for error. Having your wood at room temperature doesn't help things.

I'll regularly use a silicon heating blanket (the one I use for side bending) and place it in between the two pieces of wood that I'm going to glue. Carefully raise the temperature up to about 105 degrees and heat up your boards slightly. The extra warmth will allow you about five minutes of working time with the hide glue; plenty of time for either a rub joint or using clamps. If I glue small parts like fingerboards or headplates they go on an electric hot plate in the shop, monitored with a thermometer.

j.
www.condino.com

[Troy Harris]

Some great qualities of hot hide glue …
Wood prepared with an edge tool and joined with hide glue, creates a seamless joint. Hide glue shrinks as it dries, and dries hard. Because it dries hard, it better transfers vibrations. If the center seam opens, due to extreme temperature and humidity changes, it can be re-glued, activating the old glue, creating a strong joint. Hide glue is super strong under constant pressure, but will give before the wood cracks with a sudden impact. It is water soluble and easy to clean… These qualities aid with doing repair work. Also, hide glue is time tested. It sounds too good to be true.

[Jim Hilburn]

I recently saw an A-2Z which had been originally bought in Calcutta in the 20's. It ended up in Colorado with someone who inherited it and doesn't play.
It has numerous seam separations from the peghead ears to the riser block to the back. I figure it has been exposed to some high temperatures in the last 80 years. For all the prase hide glue gets it makes you wonder of this would have happened if it had been built with Titebond.

[Dan Voight]

Well, I just built my first varnish drying contraption. This next mandolin has to be finished before this weekend. I tested it and it nearly dried a test piece with some international violin varnish in 2 hours. I'll post some pics soon.

[Jim Hilburn]

I don't know how many use MicroMesh but I've gotten totally addicted to it. I don't use any other abrasive to level my finishs. On lacquer I do the first set of coats with the 1500. This is the most vulnerable time during the leveling process when you have the thinnest coats on but they're usually quite rough because they've taken on the texture of the wood. The 1500 takes longer than 600 wet-dry, but it's so much safer. Nothing worse than a sand-through at this stage.
I do the entire final set of coats with 1800. The second set of coats should be much smoother to begin with and 1800 levels it pretty quickly but doesn't leave very deep scratches to be removed on the buffer.
I use a mineral spirit- baby oil mix as a lubricant. I'd never use soapy water which was the way I learned. It can really screw things up where it can get under the lacquer like at the tuner holes.
The next MicroMesh trick is to work through the grits on areas where getting the buffer in is difficult or where there's a lot of exposed edges like on the peghead edges. This photo which is a little fuzzy shows the peghead worked to 4000. Then I never need to use the coarse buffer and could actually go up through the grits to 12000 and the hand polish it if I choose. Just another way to avoud disasters.
I'm doing a lacquer job now but the Mesh is great for varnish and has become a standard in the violin world.

[buddyellis]

I love micromesh, just keep in mind that the 1500 grit stuff is essentially the same grit size as regular 600 wet/dry (but with more consistantly oriented grit, so it cuts finer)

Much, much better than the old pumice, rotten stone, etc. at taking out the swirlies after FP, which I've not gotten good enough at doing by hand yet.

BTW, that plate re-glue seems to be holding. This is one that I'm keeping anyway, for my son. I need a new 'Demo' model to hang onto.

[oldwave maker]

HSS tooling seems to last longer cutting thru hide glue than titebond, carbide seems to last the same on both.

[Links]

Any place you recommend buying micro-mesh in bulk quantites where it is reasonably priced? #I haven't checked automobile paint suppliers around here, but the local Woodcrafters has it in small and expensive packs!

[Jim Hilburn]

I think it's Rockler's in Denver that has individual sheets. They've got outlets around the country or you can find them online.
The stuff is amazingly durable.

[buddyellis]

International Violin has some of the best prices I've seen, I think.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Ok here is some good food for thought. #Pictured below is a Tupperware box of nitro plastic scraps that I opened up yesterday. #This is my supply of small odds and ends pieces. #This has been closed up for maybe a year or so. #There are numerous aged pieces of all sort of different tortoise styles from all over the place. #All of it (including pieces of my newest good stuff) completely chemically reacted. #Some of it has a slightly melted look. It is all kindof greasy. All of it breaks with no effort like an eggshell would. #The thin Martin pickguard stuff will turn to dust in your hand with no effort. #A two year old can break the 3/8 thick stuff with ease. Most of it is not discolored or pot marked.

There is a very weird odor to it, and it is not acetone oriented in nature.

[Darryl Wolfe]

I have another stash of larger pieces that can be used for something constructive. #This drawer contains mostly the same plastic and it is located less than 3 feet away. #This is a old Steelcase drawer cabinet with low profile drawers. #I browse around in here often, and there are no problems to be found with any of the plastic.

[sunburst]

I keep most of my plastics in an a drawer in an old steel map cabinet. All the celluloid in there, old and new, is doing fine.
I've kept picks in air tight tins before and had them start to deteriorate. I suspect air tight storage is the wrong thing for celluloid.

[Links]

Thanks Jim & Buddy!

Darryl #- #is the odor like Camphor? #I've been a pocket knife collector for many years and celloid handles have always been very "dicey". #They seem to deteriorate on their own schedule regardless of how they are stored. #Just do not store them around other knives as the gas/vapor that they give off will cause a knife blade to rust immediately. #Happened to me more than once!

[Darryl Wolfe]

yes..I've been syudying up on camphor and that is apparently it

[Darryl Wolfe]

Here I go again. Like usual, bulk is better

[Gail Hester]

Wow, when they're finished I'll take the whole pile.

[David Newton]

I'm with John on the reason for this, I think airtight storage is worse.

On the hide glue comments, I used hide glue for years, but only on violin repairs. A couple of years ago a buddy recommended it for guitar wood purfling-binding jobs, and I tried it, and found it wonderful. Now I'm totally sold on it for the entire build, so pleasant to work with warm glue, the easy clean-up, fast setting, I love the smell, the chippy-hard joints.

Still need CA for the celluloid...

[billhay4]

A few days in the shop and I've got four rims ready plus a pile of tops and backs. These are for induced arched Selmers I am making for presents.
Bill

[Paul Hostetter]

A few years ago I finally ponied up a pile of dough for what I believed at the time was an out of print book called Celluloid by Julie Robinson.



Turns out she still sells it, click on her picture to find out more. Most of the book is about collector's values on antique celluloid stuff, but I bought it for its fairly extensive introduction on the history of celluloid which explains how it's made and why some of it breaks down and some doesn't. In a nutshell, it's about contaminated ingredients in the original batch, or about induced contaminants. In 1868, John Hyatt, the inventor of celluloid, discovered the action of natural camphor (the powdered resin of the evergreen camphor tree) on nitrocellulose (cellulose fiber chemically treated with nitric acid and then washed in purified water) when it's basically pressure-cooked into a moldable goo. The purification of the pulp is the crux of the eventual longevity of the plastic. Low-quality stuff dies, better-made stuff endures.

[Michael Lewis]

Darryl, the oily stuff on the surface of the celluloid may well be the acid used to make it with. I have dealt with some old D'Angelico guards that were like that. They just crumbled and were "greasy" with that stuff coming out of the plastic. Check it out with litmus paper to see if it is acidic, should be available from your local pharmacist.

[Joel Spaulding]

Darryl, the oily stuff on the surface of the celluloid may well be the acid used to make it with. #I have dealt with some old D'Angelico guards that were like that. #They just crumbled and were "greasy" with that stuff coming out of the plastic. #Check it out with litmus paper to see if it is acidic, should be available from your local pharmacist.

Make sure you call first!! #
Most of the "oddball" stuff that was readily available in every pharmacy from the 1950s -80s is becoming increasingly rare on the shelves and has been relegated to "special order", and that, #if one is lucky.

Perhaps the pH strips from a spa/pool kit would work?

My $0.02 - not a builder, but a Pharmacist who very much enjoys the builder's threads.

[Michael Lewis]

Drmole, thanks for the update. I hadn't tried to get litmus paper for a good many years, probably available from a chemical company ON THE INTERNET!!!

Live and yearn.