Intro to bowl backs

[dchilds]

I've been playing for about 1 1/2 years and would like to get a bowl back. I don't want to invest in a expensive one, but I want one that will be playable. Any thoughts on this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....y=10179

It's obviously not the best around, but if it is good intro, I would take the plunge. If this is not a good one, any recommendations on others?

Thanks,
Dustin

[brunello97]

Dustin,

I went over to the bowl-side a couple years ago and have enjoyed it immensely. #The fortunate thing (and the curious one) is that good quality bowls can still be had for a very reasonable price. #Probably given how many were made and and that many were taken care of. #$200 should get your hands on something playable and enjoyable if you are careful in shopping. #

Washburn, Vega and Martin are good options to look for. #(The one you are considering appears to be an Lyon and Healy model out of Chicago, but I could use some help verifying that....) # The price seems kind of high, and may be such because of the decorative MOP on the fretboard. #You are probably paying for the bling more than for the quality.

Depending on what you want to spend, here are a couple of options bracketing that:

A entry level Washburn (which were L+H's top brand name bowls at this time)
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Washburn-brazilian-rosewood-bowlback-mandolin_W0QQitemZ290194058454QQihZ019QQcateg
oryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage....iewItem</a>

And a Martin 000 for a little bit more than 200$:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....&ih=011

I have a Washburn 115 model (close to the one above) which I think sounds and plays quite nicely. #$99 seems ridiculously low for such a instrument. I also have a Martin 00 (a notch down from the 000) which sounds very good for a student grade model. #Both Washburn and Martin made much higher end bowls, but either these two would get you in the door at a reasonable price. #

At $350 the Martin may be a bit higher, but seems a good price for these bowls of late, and should hold or appreciate its value. #Our amigo here, Eugene, is a true Martin connoisseur and would no doubt second the suggestion. #Or so I think.

Lots of L+H or Washburn bowlbacks do pass through the Ebay mill so don't feel you have to jump too soon. #Fewer Martins come by at such a reasonable price (I'm kind of tempted on that one myself....) #They have kind of escalated of late.

You can pay more and opt into an Italian made model, but fewer of them are available on US ebay, and shipping costs can be onerous from the Continent. #It is my amateurish opinion though that the entry to mid-grade US models, particularly Martin and Vega are equal or better than the lower end Italian bowlbacks in the same price range. #(With the better name Italian mandolins it is another story of course.)

The real question of buying these old bowlbacks on line is that the neck angle has sometimes gone out due to string tension, poor care or other factors. #It can be hard to tell from photos so I would ask the appropriate questions before committing.

You will probably get a few other good suggestions here from some folks who have a lot more experience with these than me, but that is my two cents worth. #Good luck! #Let us know what you decide on.

Mick

[JeffD]

Welcome over to the BB side. I would never say bowlbacks to the exclusion of all else, but darn they are a lot of fun.

I am not an ebay type of guy, just a luddite in that way I guess. But I put out the word at my local music stores that I was looking, and sure enough every now and then one comes in. Prices range from $200 to $400. Also check out Elderly Instruments, they will give you an accurate discription of the condition of the instrument.

[Eugene]

I would shy from the no-names made for general catalogue sales, like this one. #They aren't as good instruments as those labeled by makers. #If you do some searching of this forum, you can find reams of shopping advice written by Jim, Bob, Martin, Mick, myself, and others. #Of the decent American makes, Vega and Lyon & Healy (L&H: the best of their own brands being Washburn) are the most abundant and tend to be the most affordable. #I believe Vega is the most consistent in tone. #Also watch for Martin, Weymann, various Larson bros. brands, most pieces made for Ditson's house brand (largely by Vega, L&H, and even Martin), Ricca, etc.

Many vintage pieces have been wrecked by inappropriate stringing. #Be mindful of the condition of the cant (i.e., the soundboard's crease) and neck. #Excessive warp or a collapsed cant is rarely worth the effort. #Also be mindful of the functionality of frets and hardware; finding replacement tuners and tailpieces can be time consuming. #If shopping eBay, this means ask a ream of questions before committing to a bid. #If the seller won't or can't respond knowingly, approach with appropriate skepticism.

When you do score one, use appropriate strings. #When I started with mandolins, it was hard to find sets to go down to ca. 0.009" or so on e'', but now many string makers do. #My favorite are Dogal's carbon steel, set RW-92b. #They start pretty stiff and bright, perhaps even too twangy in voice, but the tone matures very nicely and the carbon steel lasts almost forever. #"Consort" strings by the company recently known as Lenzner have excellent tone, but I tend to wear out the wound a strings relatively quickly. #GHS makes a "classical" set that is very light, but I wear them out very quickly.

Also, I think its easiest to coax a rich tone from these with relatively thin and pointy plectra. #Do some searching of the classical forum for chat on Neapolitan- and Roman-type picks.

Good luck and keep us informed on your quest.

[vkioulaphides]

Welcome aboard, Dustin!

If I may ask... what is the price-range you are considering? Yes, brunello is correct to say that, e.g. a decent, low-priced Vega is (usually) a better deal than some bottom-drawer creature of Miroglio or Musikalia— both on the low end of Italian mass-producers.

If I may suggest a course of action: yes, go out and shop (CAREFULLY!) for a Washburn or Vega. Save up some money for later. If you then decide that bowlbacks are "it", say, 2-3 years down the line, do not hesitate to spend a modest sum ($1,000-or-so) on a mid-price-range, quality instrument.

Compared to quality carved instruments, bowlbacks are nearly ALWAYS a bargain.

Welcome, again.

Cheers,

Victor

[Eugene]

...And in the short amount of time I was typing, it appears more excellent advice has arrived. Enjoy!

[Got8Strings]

Once you go bowlback, you never go back...Jack

[JeffD]

Oh, by the by - Eastman is coming out with some bowlbacks, for sale in the US. They will run about $1400 new. I am really excited to see them.

Eastman already makes a fantastic hardshell fiberglass bowlback case.

[dchilds]

Thanks for all the great advice. My first instinct was to wait for another Vega or Washburn to come available from Elderly in the $200-400 range, and I think I will stick with that route. I definitely want a bowl back, but I don't want to waste my time with a warped piece of garbage that will just frustrate me. In the mean time, I'll just keep barking out Bach on my F-5

It's amazing how much you can learn through these forums. The "Bowl backs of Note" thread has taught me a ton, and I continue to learn. Thanks!

-Dustin

[Got8Strings]

Oh, by the by - Eastman is coming out with some bowlbacks, for sale in the US. They will run about $1400 new. I am really excited to see them.

Jeff - that sounds interesting - do you have any details, like specs, dates, retailers, etc?

[Eugene]

Click here, Got8-Jeff.

...And really give a thought to the Martin 000 on eBay, Dustin.

[Jim Garber]

I missed the start of this thread, but I am glad to see that you are in good hands, advice-wise.

I would also add that instruments with MOP fretboards also present a problem esp when needing fretwork. I would steer clear of them unless they were top of the line instruments by serious makers and even then would be more interested in them as collector items rather than playing instruments.

[John Bertotti]

+1 on the vega.