4 vs. 8

[Huda]

Hi all,

The acoustic mandolin is known for its eight strings. So why do electric mandolins come with four strings?

I know that you can get an electric mandolin with eight stings, but it seems that most electric mandolins come with four strings.

Why?

Is there something about the amplification process that favors four strings rather than eight stings?

Thanks,
Huda

[Perry]

The solid body electric mandolin is a different animal then the acoustic. Part of the reason for pairs on acoustics is increased volume. Unecessary on electric and just creates more strings to tune if they were on an electric.

The subtlety of the acoustic is lost in an electric envroment so you would not really hear the nuance of the pairs anyway.

Also the pairs of strings just don't sound quite right loud & electrified; if the course is slightly out of tune they create a "warble". Almost cancel eachother out. In my experience electronic effects don't repsond that well to the pairs either.


Just my .02 though.
Perry

[Chippster]

Definately! Something about the distortion inherant in any signal from a magnetic pickup just doesn't sound great in my opinion, and i've played a lot of electric mandolins! The thing that gives an 8 string mandolin it's unique sound is partially due to the fact that both strings in a 'course' are not tuned to exactly the same pitch. That minor dissonance causes a 'sweetness' for want of a better word. With a magnetic pickup (like you'd find on an electric guitar) through a guitar amplifier ... that sweetness just doesn't sound very sweet. I was talking to some mandolin experts, one was John Hedgecoth, about this a month or so ago and they both agreed wholeheartedly. A 4 or 5 string electric mandolin with a little bit of chorus and a hint of reverb will sound more like a true mandolin than an 8 string with the same pickup configuration. I'm sure it has a lot to do with sound waves and the way amplifiers amplify sound.

[Patrick Killeen]

My main mandolin is a solid bodied electric eight string which I almost always play without effects, instead I vary the tone by mixing the pickups differently (it's got a single coil guitar pickup and a Fishman bridge transducer).

The pairs of string create a natural chorus effect which I really like, but which is difficult to mix with electronic effects. It's a subtle effect which is easily either lost or overemphasised when you start messing with the signal.

Also, it is much harder to bend notes on an eight string, I can bend them enough to add vibrato, but I can't use string bending melodically.

On reflection, I suppose I treat my instrument a lot like an electro-acoustic mandolin, which is why the double strings work for me.

Patrick

[mrmando]

I don't know if I would agree that most electrics are single-course any more. There seem to be lots of 8-string imports with pickups.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Is there something about the amplification process that favors four strings rather than eight stings?

In a word, yes.

First off, a lot of electric mandolinists are after a different feel, and a different sound, than an acoustic mandolin. The electric mandolin lets those who are more familiar with a mandolin's fretboard play like electric guitarists.

There are some things that electric guitarists do - and that electric mandolinists do - that sound awful with paired courses. One of those is just playing with any sort of distortion.

Anyone who's ever tuned a guitar with harmonics knows how easy it is to get the tuning right by running the instrument through a bit of overdrive. The drive brings out more subtle differences in tuning, which are easier to fix because you can hear the oscillations.

Mike Marshall has said that anyone who's not playing his mandolin is probably tuning his mandolin (or something to that effect). It's hard to keep two strings in unison when you're playing them, and in playing an instrument through an amp, any differences in tuning will be that much more noticeable.

Another reason - and it's related - is that string bends on paired courses will take the string to slightly different points, because they're not quite going to the same length when they're bending. That amplification problem kicks in again, and you get a string bend that sounds pretty ugly.

[mandocrucian]

Another reason - and it's related - is that string bends on paired courses will take the string to slightly different points, because they're not quite going to the same length when they're bending. #That amplification problem kicks in again, and you get a string bend that sounds pretty ugly.

That's only because you haven't worked on them (1/2 step bends) enough. If you're in the middle of the neck, full steps are doable on the D and A strings. (I push bend, incidentally on double courses). Doublestop bends are real problematic - though simpler stuff like bending a B-D# doublestop D9-A6 up to C-E is possible.

Frankly if I'm playing a electric 14" scale mando tuning, I'd rather do it on a solidbody 8 rather than my 57 Fender 4-string. If it's single strings, then I'm going with a 17-19" scale 5-string (mini-guitar conversion) tuned an ocvtave lower.

Ideally, I'd have a mando-8 and a octave-5 on a doubleneck body. But since there's no real outlet for me to use one where I'm living, the design has never progressed passed the mock-up stage. (I refuse to Pay to play; those days are long past. If it isn't going to pay for itself, I'm not sinking in the cash.)

Why 8 rather than 4? If the neck/action feels pretty much like my Gibson acoustics, there is no transition. I'll play it pretty much the same as I would, but without having to deal with feedback or lack of volume. #But then again, I play my acoustics more-or-less in an electric manner a lot of the time. I've used the F-4 (with a Fishman bridge pickup, no pre-amp, plugged directly into a guitar amp) and you'd swear it was an electric guitar if you weren't watching.

I'n a lot of respects, the 17" 5-string has advantages. Being in a lower register means you can handle a lot of the rhythm section function as opposed to be a high-pitched "add-on" (i.e. superfluous). The problem is the stretches you've got to deal with - a lot of the stuff I would do on "mando" are now physically out-of-reach. So there's rock stuff (including the rhythm grooves/riffs), which paradoxically, I can pull off better on the 8-string, even though it's higher pitched. And there's a fair amount of string-splitting on the lower courses, both in lead and rhythm, used to thicken and fatten up the sound. With 4-strings, I lose that, and overall I'd be better off on the low 5-string.

NH