Recording an acoustic band

[jeff_75]

I'd like to record some tracks from a three-piece acoustic band - bass, guitar and mandolin, plus vocals. I've never had much luck with this in the past. I don't need studio quality, but I'd like something that would be passable for a demo CD to pass out. #I'm also not interested in trying to set up multitrack recording. #I'd like something I can set up to record the full band at one time. #Either a microphone set up, or possibly something running from a soundboard into a recording setup. #

Anyone have success with recording bands using the Zoom H2 or H4, or comparable Marantz devices?

What are you guys using? What works well and what doesn't work at all? #Any suggestions would be helpful.

[Ken Sager]

I just bought a Zoom H2 that produces surprisingly good sounding audio files. That's an option, as it can record a 360 degree (omni) pattern. Put it on a stand or tripod in the center of a room at about voice level and start recording. I used it recently to record a piano and two voices and it sounds great. It is amazingly sensitive so make sure you record in a quiet space. It picked up conversation from another room, as a matter of fact. Nonetheless, the bass notes were strong, vocals clear, and it really sounded nice. I positioned it about 4 feet in front of the singers aimed toward the piano.

Another thing I've done successfully is used different mics mixed to stereo and recorded from a mixer to a mini-disk recorder. Worked great as a demo once I transferred to CD and got the band lots of gigs. Use any stereo recording device in place of a MD recorder. I've had great success recording live from a mixer to a Sony home-stereo type CD deck that burns CDs.

You could do the same thing with a single omni (for playing around the mic) or cardoid (aimed at the band) condenser and a mixer to an outboard device.

There are cheap USB audio adapters for this very purpose, many of which come with lite versions of software to help you record to your computer.

What doesn't work at all? I've managed for years to get just about anything to work and produce decent sounding CD demos. The trick is getting it from other analog devices to a computer to then manipulate onto a CD.

HTH,
Ken

[MandoBen]

One of the best sounding low budget recordings I ever did was with 4 mics into a mixing board, then out of the mixing board stereo outputs into an old stereo VCR. Took the VHS cassette to my local Ritz Camera shop and had them transfer it to CD. Took the CD home and started burning copies. It was a long time ago but I seem to remember it sounding really good.

[TonyP]

I'm not sure of what you're looking at budget wise, but I like my semi down and dirty setup. I guess it just depends on what gear you have already. If you have a PA, use the mixer out to go to whatever recorder you got handy.

I use a my Toshiba laptop, M-audio mobile pre, and AT 4050 mic set on omni. Put that in the middle of the room and let 'er rip. Burn cd's right there with the laptop. We've done demo's that sound great and some practices of new tunes so everybody can take it home and work on their own. People are always amazed that's all it is and how good it comes out.

[picksnbits]

I have the Zoom H4 and a friend has the Edirol. Both produce excellent results with the built-in mics, to my ear. Keep in mind that they are stereo recorders so instruments will be stronger in one channel or the other depending on which side of the recorder they are on.

[mando.player]

I can also recommend the Zoom H4. If you have access to two decent mics you could use one for the vocal (a dynamic mic) and one for the instruments (a condenser mic). That would allow some flexibility in tweaking the instruments and vocal(s).

Otherwise you can just try to mix yourselves by physical placement and use the internal mics.

[Clyde Clevenger]

We recorded our 4 piece band, banjo, guitar, mando and bass, with voacals with a Zoom H4 set up like a single mic.Old Circle We perform with a single mic, just takes a few takes to get the position right.

[ajh]

Regarding the Zoom H2 (and probably all the others). If you are recording in a circle, be careful about your placement regarding the doghouse bass. The thump can overpower the rest of the recording. I had mine set with the 90 degree spread facing me and the 120 facing away. The bass was 10-15' at my 2:00. And it severely overpowered the (moderately played) banjo at my 10:00 on the recording. Sounded fine live.

Tony

[jeff_75]

We recorded our 4 piece band, banjo, guitar, mando and bass, with voacals with a Zoom H4 set up like a single mic.Old Circle #We perform with a single mic, just takes a few takes to get the position right.

Mandoholic - are the tracks on your myspace page from the H4?

[Mike Bunting]

Clyde, that is really nice stuff and I mean the tunes, singing and playing. The recording is good too. Some of the best stuff I've heard is tunes recorded at a house party In Lubbock Texas in the early '60s by Jimmy Martin (with JD and Paul Williams) on a reel to reel with one mic.

[Romkey]

I have an Edirol for recording rehearsals. It does an amazingly good job. The engineer we work with sometimes said it's good enough to bring tracks into the studio for a little enhancement and mastering of something simple and straightforward. It just keeps getting cheaper and easier.

Next step up -- which you may be interested in sometime in the future -- would be something like an M-Audio 2 channel interface and Logic Express, Garageband or some other editing software. That would give you the option of both multitracking and doing more with mic placement than you can with an all-in-one flash unit. Up from that, there are 4 and 8 channel interfaces that do the same thing but with more inputs.

[steve V. johnson]

Tony notes that; "If you are recording in a circle, be careful about your placement regarding the doghouse bass. #The thump can overpower the rest of the recording. "

On the Edirol R-09 there is a 'low-cut' switch (and also a switch for two levels of input gain) and I would think that that would help with the bass in the recording. #Does the #H2 not have a low-cut switch? They usually roll off the bottom at something like 80Hz, which should ease the amount of energy coming in and still keep the bass sound 'whole'.

A low-cut (technically called a "high-pass filter") can help but...

Of course, the real thing is that this is -truly- "old school" recording, so if one instrument is swamping the others, that player has to move a bit further away or turn sideways a bit, stuff like that. # And/or the recorder can be moved... #But this is the way it was done in the earliest days of recording, and I just love to imagine those days and work like that.

(Well... ok... I don't like to do it that way -all- the time! # # #)

stv

[Clyde Clevenger]

We record all of our practices with the H4, what's on the Old Circle myspace page is just 4 cuts from one of our practices. It really surprized me how well the bass comes through, as it is in the back of the other three members. Our one mic performance are really two mics as there is a mic on the bass.

[Clyde Clevenger]

We had a jam a couple of weeks ago at our house with Jim Faddis from Spokane, Bill Jolliff (Jake's Dad) and a few of us yokels that came out so good that I think I could sell it if I wasn't an honest person. Bill and Jim traded songs they had written with a pretty good back-up band. I'll leave it in my will.

[Salty Dog]

I regularly record my band's concerts from a Mackie sound board (tape out RCA plugs) into the 1/8" plug line input on my Edirol R-09. #You can get about 3 hours of full blown WAV format stereo on a 2 gig SD card and the sound is as good as what the board sent to the speakers. #I then use my $30.00 Roxio software to transfer it to the computer, edit it into tracks, and then burn what I want to a CD. #The sound quality is as good as what comes from the mixer. #The R-09 is like a tape recorder (not many bells or whistles or multi-track) and nearly intuitive to use. #The only challenge is to get the input level to the R-09 set (on the R-09) so that you are not distorting the signal - there is a light on the R-09 that flashes when you are overdriving (distorting). #Simple as that.

[Alex Fields]

I have a couple of condenser mics I send through a mixer into my laptop. Haven't recorded anything in quite a while but the results were pretty good when I did.

[fred d]

Look into the BOSS MICRO br it seems to do everything with 32 tracks and usb transfer and inexpensive about 250 or less

[TonyP]

I just had to look Fred, it's a 4trks, 32 virtual trks(that means you can swap them in, but it's not a 32trk recorder), still pretty amazing for the price.

[MWM]

Many times I've used 2 large condensers into my old mixer and fed the mix into my Mac. Like most Mac's, it has a good quality built-in sound card (though only 16-bit). For most PC's you'll want an aftermarket soundcard or interface. #I still use Audacity (free shareware) for software. #You can make some very good quality recordings this way. An excellent website for home recording info is www.tweakheadz.com

[Bluegrass Boy]

I've used my Mackie power mixer to record (line out to an H4) but a friend told me that it could hurt the mixer to use it without a speaker hooked up to it. Something about all that power generated and nowhere for it to go. Anybody know about this?

[steve V. johnson]

Salty Dog serz, " The only challenge is to get the input level to the R-09 set (on the R-09) so that you are not distorting
the signal ..."

One of the nice things about digital editor software is that you can record to a digital medium at a little lower input level to keep
the peaks from distorting and then change the overall gain of the sound file in the software afterwards.

I don't know if your Roxio software has a 'gain' setting or a 'normalize' button, but if you get the Audacity free download and
open your sound files in Audacity you can raise the gain back up. #"Normalize" means to find the highest peak of the signal and
raise that up to 0db, as high as it will go. #In Audacity, when you select the file and then click on the word "amplify" in the "effects" pulldown menu, it shows what the highest peak level of that file is, handy feature. #Then you can tell it to raise the
whole file as much as you like.

Some software allows you to set a normalization ceiling lower than 0db, which I like. #Not everything needs to be topped out, and much stuff sounds better if it's not the loudest it can be. # I don't remember if Audacity will do that or not. #I don't really use
normalization much. If I need to raise a whole file (song or a whole recording) I don't go up to 0db.

I hope this helps. #Maybe you won't have to keep one eye on the recorder for overloads while you're playing ...

stv

[Salty Dog]

I don't believe the cheaper ROXIO software has that feature; probably the more expensive package has it. #The major problem isn't the recorder but to get the vocalists to appreciate consistent positioning with a condenser area mike. #Thanks for the info on Audacity - I know a lot of people that love it and that's where I'll go if I have to change.

[steve V. johnson]

Hey Salty Dog,

Yeah, singers ... what kin a picker DO with 'em ... ?!?!?

I certainly don't -love- that Audacity but I have to give some serious repsect to the folks who write it. #It's very versatile, and it really doesn't screw up the audio. #Fer free.

Play well,

stv

[mandobsessed]

The most important link on your chain is the mics. A large diaphram condenser mic or stereo pair will work wonders. A band I play with uses a matched pair of Rode NT5's and it sounds awesome. My fomer favourite band mic is the AKG C3000b, but mine is developing issues and needs to be replaced.

I don't know much about the quality of the mics on the Zoom units but I have heard some decent recordings from them.

[ajh]

Steve,

Thanks for the tips about "amplify" vs "normalize" in Audacity. I am just getting started in the recording thing (Zoom H2 /Mp3 vs WAV / Audacity), so any info is a big help.

Other than the Audacity tutorial, does anyone know a link or site for Audacity practical "hints"?

Thanks
Tony