If you are quoting by hitting the quote button, there is a window with the original quote and it says "You may edit the post you are quoting here". #Originally Posted by (emitfo @ Oct. 24 2007, 08:48)
You can go back and change any post you made by clicking on the "edit" button at the top of the post. #That only works with posts you made.
Once you are editing a post with a quote, the quote will be in the same window with your text.
<Insert witty saying here>
To edit I go back and back space the parts I do not want to qoute or is there an easier way?
In other words I go to the post to qoute box and just back space everything out but the part of the qoute I want to use.
Sorry to steal your question emitifo but I have wondered also.
At the risk of getting too far off topic...
When editing a post, I just use my mouse to highlight (click and hold while dragging) the section I want to delete and then hit the delete button on the keyboard. #I will caveat this with the observation that some little quirks may be different depending on your system (OS and browser).
<Insert witty saying here>
I'll continue the hi-jack. #When I want to quote multiple peices, especially if they are from muliple messgages from different people,#I open a second browser window or a notepad window.
Then in one, I hit the quote link, edit out the stuff I don't want, and hit the preview button. #That shows just the stuff I want with the quote tags in place.
I cut and paste that into the other window and do that multiple times until all the quote fragments I want are in place.
I realize that sounds like a lot to just avoid typing the quote tags, but it's actually quicker and easier than it sounds, and if it's from multiple messages, it preserves the person's name for each fragment, too.
ApK
I tend to use the alternate F# fingering on (Boehm) flute #T|X X X |O X O x #in D tunes cause it's 5 cents flatter (and a little closer to a just 3rd) than the standard 12TET fingered F#: T|X X X |O O X x .
On Mando
Tweaking the m3 to just isn't a big deal - just bend 1/6 semitone sharp. It depends on how prominant or sustain the note is whether I do it. If it's a passing 16th note, there's no point and no real gain. #But if it is a longer note, especially played in a doublestop (i.e. R-m3 or m3-5, it gets the bend instinctively.
Major 3rds are more problematic as you have to bend 5/6 of the way up from your fretted m3. #But if it's a sustained or tremoloed doublestop, at a slower tempo, I'll go for the bend in order to get the sweeter intonation.
On single-line stuff, I'll use the quarter-tone neutral 3rd a lot, as well as the sub-minor 3rd. (33 cents flatter than 12TET m3. - Fret the 2nd, and bend 2/3 semitone up.) The 7ths get a variety of tweakings. Sub-minor 7th works real good. #The sub-minor 3rd and the sub-minor 7th sound great above a root drone, or a drone on the 5th. Richard Thompson uses these when he does piping like stuff on electric guitar ("Calvary Cross" intro), but not in close (m3-5) doublestops.
Actually, it's a kind of a floating just intonation I use. I'll tweak certain intervals in relation to the chord root (at the time) in the progression. But undoubtedly that's the case with any of super-benders of e-gtr (RT, Garrett, Knopfler, etc) with the really sweet "intonation". (not "tone" as most people would describe it, although they may have great tone as well and simultaneously), especially when a lot of doublestops are involved.
I hate to think about somehow being limited by 12TET again - I'd probably put the instrument down and switch to fiddle/viola (in retrospect, something I really should have done 20 years ago) to escape the fretted pitch limitations.
Niles H
Mandocrucian tracks on SoundCloud
CoMando Guest of the Week 2003 interview of Niles
"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so!." - Randy Newman ("It's A Jungle Out There")
Some electric keyboards do have settings to change from equal tempered to other tempering systems.
http://www.petersontuners.com/media....0ST.pdf
Jim mentioned that pianos are "stretch tuned" but didn't elaborate. Beginning on page 39 of this PDF document are charts that illustrate what he means. You can see that only in the middle of the piano are the ocatves held closely to a 2/1 "perfect" ratio. Going towards either end the octaves are actually stretched wider than perfect. Scroll up to page 36 and read the definition of "stretch".
Wye Knot
I believe stretch tuning is used on a piano because our ears tend to hear very high or low notes as being slightly sharper or flatter than they actually are.
Niles, I can't imagine bending 2 strings on a mandolin together into better tuning than the fretted note. When I bend notes the 2 strings of the course go all out of tune with one another and it's a bit of a disaster.
Chip
Chip, what you say might be true, but there's more reason to stretch octaves. When strings vibrate they create more than one pitch. The main note that you hear is the fundamental. But there are also higher notes called partials. The octaves are stretched so that the upper partials of the strings are more in tune with other. You can see in those charts that the shorter pianos require more stretch because by necessity the shorter pianos have more compromises when their scale is designed.
Wye Knot
OK.... here is another version of the perfect thing... Some of it has already been touched upon:
Back in Gregoria times, there was no harmonic system. Music was monophonic (Gregorian Chant). However when boys began to sing with the men, they could not produce the same notes with the boys' voices as yet unchanged. They discovered the octave this way. Boys singing an octave higher than the men. This was called "magadizing". It was very pleasing to their early ears. And since the music they were singing was all religious at the time, the interval was called "perfect" for God.
But then they discovered that some men did not have the same range as others (tenor, bass etc.) and some of the singers found it uncomfortable to sing in unison due to their personal range. It was discovered that men with higher voices could sing the exact same melody a fifth higher and it sounded pretty cool. Very consonant and pleasing. Once again, perfect for God. This is how our modern harmonic system started... because all the monks (and the boys) did not have the same range.
So it is perfect both because of its consonance and its purpose for God.
Mando Lynn (aka: Tillmanator)
Lee, to further augment my understanding, is it possible that what I am saying and you are saying is roughly the same thing? When I hear a very low note, especially on a piano, it seems to me that the higher partials, I call them overtones (same thing?), are far more obvious than one in the middle or upper registers. I think this is because those overtones quickly get into such high frequencies that we can barely hear them. If we can hear those overtones clearly it makes since that we would be more sensitive to the pitch of the low note. I'm not sure exactly how this would effect higher pitches, but perhaps it is all related.
Chip
The reasons for "stretch tuning:
from Grove's Dictionary of Music:
"In piano timbre a mild degree of inharmonicity obliges the tuner to make all the octaves slightly larger than the theoretical norm of 1200 cents (which would be an octave with a frequency ratio of exactly 2:1). While the proper amount varies with the particular instrument, a general indication is given in Table 1 (based on suggestions made by the Tuners Supply Co. of Boston, Massachusetts). Some of the ‘stretch’ in the extreme bass and treble, however, is for the sake of a certain melodic bite gained by making the octaves larger than harmonic justness would dictate. In this respect different tuners and musicians have different tastes, but markedly stretched octaves are at best a mixed blessing in chamber music, where a more sober intonation will allow the non-keyboard instruments to blend more resonantly."
The "inharmonicity" mentioned in the above quote refers to overtones which are not part of the harmonic series.
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It strikes me that most musicians have an insufficient understanding of tuning and acoustics -- issues that are right at the heart of what we do and how we hear. I have been devoting much time attempting to to remedy the situation for myself and my students.
So much to learn...
A while back I downloaded a "lecture" given by guitarist Steve Kimock. Most of it was way over my head but what I remember was when he discussed that the "old blues dudes" had the minor third right though when we listen to them now we may think it sounds a bit flat.
Ifyou are inteterested he says much the same thing in this interview
just scroll down to the part on intonation.
This is a helpful explanation too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretched_tuning
Wye Knot
I love it when you all go off on something like this.
I'm sure that some day it will make sense, but not today.
Interesting none the less.
I don’t think it has anything to do with temperament. Its very simple really. Take any scale mode, major, minor, Dorian etc. The 4th note in the scale is always 5 half steps from the tonic. The 5th note in the scale is always 7 half steps from the tonic. Always perfect. The other scale intervals will vary in the number of half steps. In the major scale the 3rd interval is 4 half steps. In the minor mode its 3 half steps. In the Dorian its 3 half steps.
Mandolin : Weber Bitterroot F, Gibson 1907 A, Eastman 805 A
Mandola : Weber Yellowstone A
Guitar : Taylor 810
Laurence
Not true for many scales - either the Lydian or Locrian modes, for example.
after I added my reply I took a moment to write out all the modes (of the major scale) and discovered I'm not correct. yet it is still hard for me to believe it has to do with tempering. I'll study this a bit more now because of this post. Its got me thinking. I do enjoy theory and it definitely feeds back in to my playing.
Mandolin : Weber Bitterroot F, Gibson 1907 A, Eastman 805 A
Mandola : Weber Yellowstone A
Guitar : Taylor 810
Laurence
Laurence-- You are right: the naming of the intervals (major 3, perfect 5, etc.) has nothing to do with temperament, stretch tuning, etc. Two different topics that somehow got confused here.
BC
My recordings: https://soundcloud.com/user-724320259/sets
I think that was largely my fault. I told you I may have been drunk at the time...
If you are playing in a bluegrass band, the banjo pretty much covers all this up.
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