Bass around a condenser

[lgc]

How do people do the bass when using a condenser-amp, DI, acoustic? My band has been having trouble getting enough volume with just the one mic.

[Russ Jordan]

we play around 2 mics. What we do with the bass really depends on where we are playing. In a quiet place, the condenser mics picks up the bass just fine. We carry another mic to place behind the bass tailpiece if needed.

[jim_n_virginia]

Our bass plays into it's own instrument mic (SM-57). She also has a Fishman bridge pickup and uses that sometimes and sometimes she use both pickup and mic. I think it just depends where we are playing.

[Jim Gallaher]

Our five-piece bluegrass band (guitar, banjo, mandolin, fiddle, bass) uses the following:

Guitar: Audio-Technica Pro37R (small condenser)

Banjo: Audio-Technica AT3031 (small condenser)

Mando: Audio-Technica Pro37R (small condenser)

Fiddle: Audio-Technica AT3031 (small condenser)

Vocals: Audio-Technica AT3035 (large condenser)

Bass: Fishman BP-100 bridge-mounted pickup into a Fishman BassII pre-amp into a Fender Bassman 100 amplifier (serving as the bass player's monitor), then using the amp's direct out into the mixing board. No bass is sent to the monitors (main Galaxy Hot Spot PA5X140 with two slave Hot Spot VC's). The bassist stands behind the "front line" and is typically not close to the vocal mic.

We used to use a dynamic mic wrapped in foam and placed in the bass tailpiece, but had some problems with feedback for whatever reason.

[TonyP]

With the Grass Less Traveled here
The bass player is the lead, so he comes through the main vocal mic, 4033 fine.
mando(me)= Oktava 012
guitar+ Oktave 012
banjo/vocal Oktava 012/ Shure 58

other band, Boys in the Wood:
mando= 012
lead singer/guitar= 4033/Peavy 480 hyper cardioid
bass= 012(used to use AKG112 and Fishman, but 012 sounds better
banjo/vocal 012/58

but the major secret to all of this is wired in ear monitors, and DBX driveRack speaker management.

[Tim2723]

IT sounds like you need multiple mics.

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't this playing into one mic thing something that the early players like Bill Monroe did? I thought they did that for radio braodcasts and such because they had to. Why would you want to do it on purpose today?

Just asking.

[lgc]

The fewer mics you can use the more connected the music sounds is what I generally find-at least with BG. Thisis especially true of the singing. Using condensers gives band more control over dynamics when using acoustic instruments but using too many condensers can cause technical issues from my experience. Plus I think that early bluegrassers deliberatly used less rather than more technology as an asthetic choice.

[TonyP]

From what I saw, any time past about the 60's, Monroe DIDN'T use the single mic in concert. He might have used it on tv(tv is nothing like live sound), but as the technology come, he used the multi mic setup. There are bands right now like Del and the Boys, but they even use two main mics, AND separate mic for the bass. And if you don't think you don't have to have sophisticated equipment to make that not feedback, you are sorely mistaken.

I don't find more of the "RIGHT" multi condenser's to be any more of a problem than using a couple. First off, if you listen to the old Monroe stuff before the advent of modern sound, there was little or no bass. And what could be heard was the slapping/higher freq. stuff, no real bottom on any of the stuff. Reason? Partially the technology, but plain 'ol physics. Not only do you loose volume quickly as you get away from any mic, you also loose bass. It makes more sense to me, and comfort wise, to have more mics and be able to work your own mic(with the corresponding lower levels, better control, and better fidelity) than to drive one or two mics higher to be able to cover a band. In my experience I've had more problems with feedback and noise that way.
Gain structure has a lot to do with feedback, along with speaker placement, and mic placement, and use of monitors. You have to go with what you know/want. In the case of the banjo players in both our bands, we have to go with separate vocal mics because they have bad backs, can't seem to handle them long necks in close quarters, consequently can't get to the main vocal mic in time. So the rest of us huddle around the main mic for vocals still, but leave the banjo on his own.
For me, the idea that somehow huddling around one mic is in anyway as good as an in ear monitor doesn't fly. The sound each instrument/voice puts out is hard for the player to hear as most modern instruments are made to project in front, not at the player. With in ears set up with the house mix, each player (if his ears are good) hears exactly what he/she sounds like, in the house mix, and gets closer/further/louder/quieter to mix themselves.

BTW, ALL of the pro bands I've seen use either a multi mic setup or modified single setup us wireless in ears. We don't have that kind of bread, so I go lo buck wired in ear. Those are essential to lo noise on stage, keeping feedback at bay.

Aesthetics I don't think had anything to do with it. It was all they had. They didn't have separate amps like other music, even early rock and you have to look at archives to see how crude the equipment really was. PA's for almost everything had one or two channels,for vocals, and that's it.