Holding the plectrum

[southcoastsounds]

I'd like to enquire about people's view on how to hold a plectrum for playing classical music. As guitarist I used to hold it between thumb and forefinger, but I believe that classical mandolin players curl their fingers over into a fist and hold the plectrum between the thumb and first knuckle of their first finger.

Is there a "correct" way to hold the plectrum? I do notice that I get a more solid, louder sound with the first knuckle method and also more wrist flexibility.

I posted this question on mandolin.org.uk but didn't get much of a response - any advice welcome.

Tom
www.southcoastsounds.org.uk

[Stefano]

See here and here

Stefano

[southcoastsounds]

Thanks Stefano - very helpful.

Tom

[billkilpatrick]

not to cast nastursciams on what's "right" in this regard, i would suggest that whatever position seems comfortable to you is probably the one to use. subtility of play (flexability, firmer strike, etc.) will evolve with lots and lots of practice - playing with an awkward grip (no matter what the consensus is on correctness) will only delay the process.

- two euro-cents

[Eugene]

That said, experimenting with emulating those who have attained a certain degree of technical proficiency might help prevent efforts at reinventing the wheel and put you on track a little faster. You might want to consider some decent methods. Here are a few to start that represent some relatively diverse approaches:

Bickford, Zarh Myron. 1920. The Bickford Mandolin Method, vols. 1-4. Carl Fischer Inc., New York.

Branzoli, Giuseppe. 1875. Metodo Teorico-Pratico per Mandolino Napolitano o Romano. Franchi/Venturini, Rome.
(This stayed in print via many publishers for a great long time.)

Calace, Raffaele. 1907-1910. Metodo per mandolino, vols. 1-6. Naples.

de Cristofaro, Ferdinando. 1884. Metodo. Lemoine, Paris.
(This stayed in print via many publishers for a great long time.)

Gladd, Neil (ed.). 1983. Sol Goichberg (1937) Thirty-five Progressive Mandolin Etudes, op. 6. Plucked String Inc. Arlington, VA.

Munier, Carlo. 1895, 1909. Scuola del Mandolino: Metodo Completo per Mandolino. Florence.

Pettine, Giuseppe. 1901-1936. Pettine’s Modern Mandolin School, vols. 1-7. Rhode Island Music Co., Providence.

Ranieri, Silvio. 1910. L’Art de la Mandoline. Edition A. Cranz, Brussels.

Tröster, Gertrud. 1995. Technique on Eight Strings, vol. 1: Etüden für Mandoline. Vogt & Fritz, Schweinfurt.

Tröster, Gertrud. 1995. The Classical Mandolin, vol. I: Basic Techniques. VHS Cassette. Plucked String Inc. Kensington, MD.

Tröster, Gertrud. 1996. Technique on Eight Strings, vol. 2: Etüden für Mandoline. Vogt & Fritz, Schweinfurt.

Tröster, Gertrud. 1996. The Classical Mandolin, vol. II: Advancing to Higher Techniques. VHS Cassette. Plucked String Inc. Kensington, MD.

[John Kavanagh]

As guitarist I used to hold it between thumb and forefinger, but I believe that classical mandolin players curl their fingers over into a fist and hold the plectrum between the thumb and first knuckle of their first finger.

I just spent a year or more retraining myself to hold it between thumb and fingertip, instead of thumb and knuckle, on the advice of a tenor banjo player. Now you're talking as if I should/could have stuck with what came naturally. The problem is, seeing the result before you invest the time.

[billkilpatrick]

[QUOTE= (John Kavanagh @ Nov. 07 2007, 15:27)]

The problem is, seeing the result before you invest the time.

amen ...

the important thing (imho) is how it sounds and how comfortable you are making that sound.

[Alex Timmerman]

Hi John and others,

Some days back I was notified that Ferdinand Binnendijk and Ruth Rouw, two members of Het CONSORT are on YouTube. #Perhaps it is nice to see some action close-ups on how they coop with the long Roman plectrum. They are still studying to master it. As you can see we, while holding the plectrum gently between the thumb and fore finger, do not play with a closed fist but more so with losely stretched middle- and ring fingers. In this way we have a more or less straight wrist which ensures the muscles and the nerves of the right arm, hand and fingers to be as relaxed as possible.


Here is Ruth playing 'De Grote Markt' (The Big Market) composed by our own Victor Kioulaphides. This wonderful gem Victor wrote right after he had witnessed the premiere of his 'Concerto per Orchestra a Pizzicoa' by the Dutch Mandolin Chamber Orchestra Het CONSORT:

Example 1 - Video example #


And here is Ferdinand playing a present he got from Victor himself; like the composer's 'Diferencias' for solo mandolin this is jet another wunderful set of variations titled 'Variations on a Basque Melody'. #:

Example 2 - YouTube Video


A third and very good example to watch is also the video of Ruth Rouw and Pauline Hulderink on mandolin accompanied by Tom Edskes on guitar. They play Victor's 'Ionian Mandolinata' and there are some very good close-ups of Paulines right hand that show excellent use of a free moving or better "flipping" long Roman plectrum held between the last fallanx of both, the thumb and index finger.


It may take a the longest down-loading time (15 minutes or so) to your PC but the MPEG1 (138 MB) - found at the left side beneeth the photo - gives the largest screen to view. Here is the link to that film :

Example 3 - Video example


I hope this might be of use to you, success!


Best greetings ,

Alex

PS. Victor's 'Diferencias' for solo mandolin is still 'on line' as a (sound file)to listen too.
You can click on this line to hear Sebastiaan de Grebber perform it. Like Ruth and Ferdinand Sebastiaan plays with the long Roman plectrum. I hope you will enjoy it all.

[Embergher]

I think this Roman plectrum is becoming too much of a myth ...
Of course you first have to be able to "play" and produce a decent tone and tremolo ... with any style of plectrum!
Only the fact that you use a Roman plectrum doesn't make you a better player.
There is too much "guessing" from people who are trying to copy other players' plectrum technique. #
It's not as simple as that
Even if things seem to look the same, the actual technique and sound is often completely different. #
Give an excellent player a different mandolin and different plectrum and the tone he/she produces will still be identifiable and as personal as before.
Most listeners will even have a job to tell the difference ... it's all very personal.

[Arto]

Thanks Alex, for pointing out these videos! YouTube has become a wonderful source of music, and it is great that classical mandolin is getting more and more coverage, too. Reading YouTube comments about classical music videos (your students, Ralf´s many great videos, Carlo, Linda etc etc - see the Classical mandolin videos on YouTube thread) shows that to many people these could be the first-time encounter that this kind on mandolin music exists, not only bluegrass and folk.

And it´s great to know you have many fine young musicians coming to the front. Post-Sebastiaan generation... Congratulations!

Arto

[Alex Timmerman]

Hi Arto,

And thank you for the nice words!
YouTube, MySpace and Music Archive etc. are indeed very good ways to show things. When the internet is used right it is a fantastic medium!

I am indeed fortunate with such wonderful young mandolin players and you know what; it's even expanding more and more for Sebastiaan now teaches at the Musicschool in Harderijk, a town about 40 minutes from Zwolle where we live, and has his own young mandolin pupils now.


The mandolin is growing strong these days!

Best,

Alex

[vkioulaphides]

Oh, the internet is fine and dandy but, hey, it's NOTHING compared to having such friends as Alex! # If a few more people made my music as visible (and, of course, #audible) as Alex does, why... I'd be famous!

But fame in the mandolin world is, of course, an oxymoron. #

Cheers to one and all!

Victor

P.S.-ON-topic: For the record, I hold my Roman plectrum --expertly and generously refurbished by Ralf-- as best I can. #

[Alex Timmerman]

Hi Victor,

Thanks, but it is mostly thanks to you. For where would we be without tone-poets like you!

Therefore I'll free-ed one of the finest songs for you, and others here, from my hard disk of which I know you like it so much.

Just click this line to watch and listen to a passionate performance of one of the most famous Cantabiles.


Enjoy and best greetings,

Alex

[billkilpatrick]

brilliant ... thank you.