The new hippie bluegrass

[Uath]

OK, I'm getting old. I'm 48, but I still have the beard (gray) and the pony tail (balding) of my youth. I've also been playing banjo and have been a HUGE bluegrass fan all of my life. I know there are others like mo out there...all you hippies.
Do you feel like the new "hippie" bands are being shortchanged?
I listen to Bluegrass Junction all the time, but it's gotten so traditional, and gospel. The new bands they seem to pump so hard all seem to be the Nashville Country-type bands. You hear more and more songs that don't even have a banjo, just some sappy singer and a country riff. They never play Nickel Creek, Leftover Salmon, Hot Buttered Rum, Mountain Earth, Dred Clampetts, Yonder Mountain. Please don't tell me they're "not really bluegrass." That's just plain foolish. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Give some room to the jam bands.
I've heard that music is being divided politically now. Rock and Rap go to the Democrats, the Left, and the Pagans. Country, Bluegrass, and Gospel, go to the Republicans, the Right, and the Conservative Christians. I don't want it to be like that! Music should be fun. There shold still be room for Chris Thile to stand next to Jimmy Martin. XM shold broaden their bluegrass horizons.

[Bigtuna]

I second that, you could have an entire XM station devoted to "new grass" or just have a show on for a hour or so that plays nothing but progressive bluegrass.

[lgc]

I'll agree to that when the jam stations start playing a heavy rotation of Monroe and Jimmy Martin and when the jam bands start playing more gospel.

[rekx]

XM's bluegrass station is horrible compared to Sirius'. I had XM in my car for 2 years and I eventually canceled it because I never listened to their stations. I now have a Sirius and I love it. Not to mention the Grateful Dead channel on Sirius.

[Jkf_Alone]

i dont hear ANY bluegrass, or good acoustic music on country stations for the most part. i hear some pretty good 90's rock with a southern accent though, and with occasional mandolin and banjo seasoning to boot. actually christian stations are playing form pretty decent stuff from the new glory revealed album, the mando player is good and the songs are well written. jam bands arent played on bigger stations because they dont fit into format, also they have limited appeal.

if your asking why stations dont play long winded instrumental tunes, its because there is a VERY limited market for them. 1 word says a lot more than 100 notes. i enjoy instrumental music as much as the next guy, but all music ultimately comes from the voice and language. instruments all imitate what the human voice can do. and it is their limitations that make them sound so interesting. i would rather hear a well crafted vocal song than the best instrumental jam ever recorded.

finally, why not dump xm, buy an mp3 player and download your CD collection onto it. you can buy 12 to 24 cds a year or 1000's of songs online and still be cheaper than XM. that way you can listen to whatever you feel like at the time.
*radio is dead*

[lovethemf5s]

Uath,
I've been a pagan liberal Democrat for over 40 years and have been playing and listening to bluegrass for just as long. Could be that living on the west coast has something to do with it. I'm not sure.

[Sonomabob]

This won't work for the car, but if you are on the net, go to pandora.com. You can make your own station(s) with the artists you like. Lots of Chris Thiele, Grisman, whoever etc.

You can also grab stations that other people have developed.

It works great for me.

Bob

[Kevin Briggs]

I agree, the music I enjoy most is never played on the radio, even the bluegrass stations. Sometimes I hear a Yonder Mountain song on the bluegrass station on digital cable, but usually never. I understand the marketing thing and needing only 3-4 minutes for each song, but I don't even listen to radio because the music generally stinks. maybe they would gain some new listeners if they played something other than Toby Keith or whatever.

[poymando]

Interesting question. Perhaps a check of the postings here:
http://lists.psu.edu/archives/folkdj-l.html
might give you an idea of where/who is playing jamgrass on the radio.

[Steve Davis]

Live365.com has mandozine radio and mandolin radio. I listen to both during the day. Unfortunately can't get them except online.

[Uath]

I think what we're seeing is XM radio excluding hippie bands on purpose. It's true that jam bands don't play much gospel, or Jimmy Martin, but gospel is being played continually on XM, and so is Jimmy. XM also hosts the BG music channel on Direct TV. They are a huge national station. Why would they exclude a large section of music that they claim to love?
I think the answer is the Nashvilleization of Bluegrass. Jam bands just don't fit in with the Christian/blue collar song machine that is the country music industry. Can you believe that something billed as folk music is put together by a computer? A mandolin player e-mailing his solo in to a studio? Is that "back to the country?" NO, it's big corporate music.
I do believe it's a political statement also. The movers in country music (include Bluegrass) really are pushing a conservative Christian agenda. Jam bands are hippies, and hippies are hated enemies of the neoconservatives. We can't let our music be hijacked by politicians of either stripe.
I think the defining moment for me was that Kenny and Amanda Smith song about a boy who's family didn't take him to church. Naturally, he turned to drugs and crime. How can a statement like that make it to the national airwaves?
I made sure my own two kids never went to church. They're both honor students at state universities.

[tkdboyd]

I like Grass, Blue, New, and Jam. By that admission it doesn't mean that I am a Bible Beating Baptist, or an Atheistic promoter of any Darwinian Bulldogs. I like Grisman, that doesn't make me hate "neocons". I like Doyle Lawson and Ricky Skaggs, doesn't mean that I want liberals to swim the River Styx. Music doesn't need any more polarization than it already has. If you dig something good for you, if you don't, don't listen to it. There are plenty of Independent Bluegrassers out there. Secular and sectarian.

[Big Joe]

Utah...my kids (4) always went to church and were honor graduates. I don't think that has much to do with either of our kids and thier educational abilities. My daughter carried a 4.0 average through high school, college, and graduate school. I think it has to do more with teaching and encouraging them to read and think that helps them develop the need to learn and excel educationally. Church can be a part of that...or not. Depends, just like everything else, the particular church they go to.

Hippy music cetainly is not dead in Nashville, and the Nashville record community is certainly not a conservative or Christian base. Listen to the songs and you will see they are pretty liberal and far out when it comes to the values many hold quite important. Bluegrass musicians may chose a more conservative song list because that fits their particular beliefs. Many of the artists are conservative and many are christian. That influences the song choice far more than any thing else. Still, there are lots of killing, drinking, cheating songs in Bluegrass. Just look at the old song "Knoxville Girl". Not much conservative or Christian about that song. While it is quite morbid, it is interesting.

Music is the expression of the soul no matter what political or religious veiwpoint we may come from. I don't believe there is any particular slant to the extreme right in music in the last few decades. If anything, it has become as secular as anything else in our world. Just my observations. Oh...my ponytial has long gone away. More from lack of ability to keep one than any political or philosophical expression. Baldness happens .

[Philip Halcomb]

I like the old gospel stuff like Bill's gospel stuff, Red Allen's stuff. Jimmy Martin has great stuff too, not necessarily gospel but great music and lyrics. But the new country/bluegrass hybrid gospel stuff is just a little too cheesy and corny sounding for me. Oh boy, when you get into the Evangelical Christian rock/folk/country, then I really feel like doing myself in. But hey, if someone else gets their kicks off that stuff then fine... I like the jam band stuff too (I'm a long time fan of the Grateful Dead), but I also really like real bluegrass harmony singing and pickin'. The scratchy ol' rural voices singing high up into the stratosphere, really moves my soul that stuff.

A lot of new gospel stuff is just flat-out missing soul and feeling, it doesn't move me. Unless a good established band is performing it like Del McCoury or something.

Bill's old stuff on the other hand send shivers down my spine, "Voice on high" and so fourth. If you can ever get a hold of some old live Bill Monroe recordings, you'll probably find the origin of jam band music right there. Some of the old live recordings really show just how far out Bill used to be able to get sometimes.

The bottom line is that music is a very personal and subjective thing. What pleases one is most likely not going to please another. I don't buy the arguement that there is a very small market for live instrumental music. The last Grateful Dead show I was at had over 100,000 people there. Whenever I go see Grisman the house is pretty much full. He might sing on one tune mind you. Doc Watson packs em' in too. He used to have a 50/50 singing to instrumental ratio. So there's plenty of room for everybody.

[blawson]

if you are on the net, go to pandora.com.

Thanks for that great link, Bob! One that will be playing for me for a while...

[entau]

I think the term is Left coast hippy dippy jazz - but
for simplicity's sake - I am a card carrying died in the wool born and raised- hippie( did not send my kids to church either - not out of high school yet - but both not in any wheres near the trouble I was in as an every Sunday Catholic at catholic school)

but -with all the jam bands and artists , film makers - dancers, farmers, doctors, lawyers, clergy , parents, children, politicians ( wait that might be a parodox) who acknowledeg themselves to be hippies-
hippies are still an extreme minority -
yeah the working class and grass roots folks and artsy types don't mind rubbing elbows - but in the end - main stream white bread Judeo-Christian- red white and blue orthodoxy - is still the majority.
I think it is no more complex than marketing - long instrumental improvised music that focuses on goove and articulation - no matter how beautiful or inspiring - will not sell like a 3 minute tune with catchy phrase and memorable (hummable)chorus.
nor will the larger majority really comprehend, or even try to dig it.
Now I know I will be in trouble with this next statement - but I firmly believe it is true-
the majority of consumers - ( doesn't matter if it is food, music,clothes, ideology) do not know what they want - they want to make a simple choice of what is offered them-
they will choose whatever is on the shelf - and be satisfied with it.
so I think if you dig jam band music - seek it out and surround yourself with it - don't wait for mass media to bring it to you.

[tkdboyd]

Existentialism and Mandolin Cafe: doomed to this eternal freedom(choice) or as stated above "they want to make a simple choice of what is offered them"

The depth of Bluegrass and the Mandolin as an instrument continues to astound!

[lgc]

First of all, hippies are not the enimies of the neocons-neocons find hippies amusing and annoyong at best. Second where are you getting this conspiracy stuff? What bands or producers, by name, in bluegrass are pushing a conservative agenda? If BG today sounds conservative to you, how is that different than it was 40 years ago. The reason gospel and traditioal themed BG is popular is because most people in this country subscribe to those belief systems and have for generations. Why not start an internet radio station focusing on jamgrass if it is that important and underrepresented? I've found BG relatively apolitical. It makes observations about people realities-it doesn't create them.
I've also read a lot of neocon stuff and none have ever mentioned BG. I thought this was suposed to be an apolitical forum about music.

[cooper4205]

Bill's old stuff on the other hand send shivers down my spine, "Voice on high" and so fourth. If you can ever get a hold of some old live Bill Monroe recordings, you'll probably find the origin of jam band music right there. Some of the old live recordings really show just how far out Bill used to be able to get sometimes.

Amen. I got into bluegrass after seeing Del at Bonnaroo a few years back, now I'm completely obsessed with first generation bluegrass (and Bill is my favorite). There's something about that old style of bluegrass that gets me like nothing else can.

[Ted Lehmann]

Great thread. Bluegrass will die if it continues to be polarized the way much of this discussion indicates. The demographics say that the generation which grew up on the first generation originators is growing older and will too soon die off. New groups like The Infamous Stringdusters and Cadillac Sky are able to honor the traditions while forging new ground. Every day Sam Bush pays his debt to Bill Monroe and stays creative and engaging. I'd prefer XM to play less Osborne brothers, less Bradley Walker, less countrified accoustic music and more LRB, New Grass Revival, Kruger Brothers, and Dry Branch Fire Squad because I want bluegrass music to be more eclectic. Helping the audience become more open to variety in our music can only give it increase vitality. One afternoon of listening to Josh Pinkham or Chris Thile forge new directions for the mandolin helps people learn how versatile and instrument it is. Alan Bibey takes the mandolin to new and exciting places every time he picks it up. - Ted

[Uath]

I guess I do sound like a conspiracy nut...however. There is no jam grass on XM. You can say what you want, but the gospel is there, the progressive stuff isn't. What about all those great "picking on" albums. I really like picking on Clapton, and Moody Bluegrass. Why don't they play those. Also, how tightly are the songwriting themes controlled. Would the country music industry permit a overtly Pagan song to make it to the airwaves? (Thor had a hammer..He's about to smash Pat Roberson) No, I don't think so.
The problem is I'm kind of locked into XM. I have all the equipment, and listen to it in my studio constantly. Last week I paid attention for an hour. They played 7 gospel songs. That's over one every ten minutes. The next hour, they played 5. Most of the rest were mostly from the 50's. Oh yes, let's not forget the Nashville clean-cut-boy-songwriters, Bradley Walker, Jerry Salley. They were there. No soul, just clean-cut Grand Ol' Oprey hokey dump.
Big Music has taken over, and they have labeled us as Nascar Dads, low educated, god-fearing, moral motor heads, who can't get past the G run.
I feel like so many of the new BG musicians don't even smoke hooey (and it shows, believe me, it shows).

[cooper4205]

I don't think you have to be a true-blue Christian to enjoy the emotion displayed in some of those old Gospel tunes, I know that is what does it for me.

Cold Jordan

[Philip Halcomb]

I don't think you have to be a true-blue Christian to enjoy the emotion displayed in some of those old Gospel tunes, I know that is what does it for me. #

Cold Jordan

Definitely not, I don't fit into the god-fearing, hard-core christian category but I do enjoy soulfully done gospel tune. I usually can't find a recording of one I like done in the past 30 years though.

The Osborne Brothers are great. Bobby Osborne is one of the best improvisational mandolin players on the planet in my opinion. I think the gent who mentioned them above is just listening to the wrong Osborne Brothers recordings. Try to find some live stuff recorded back in the 60s and 70s, I think it will knock your socks off. Furthermore, bands like the Infamous Stringdusters who are great by the way, have mostly gained their influences from or from artists who had been influenced by the Osborne Brothers, Frank Wakefield, Jimmy Martin, Bill Monroe, etc...etc... I truly feel that it pays off to listen to those old records sometimes to gain a sense of what bluegrass really sounds like. Dawg, Sam Bush and others are great for my generation too.

Also, there's a difference in just being a fan and being a musician too. As a musician I want to learn how those ol' cogers got their sound and how to implement it in my own way. They got a ton of sound out of those lil' mandolins. Chris Thile as great as he is, doesn't pull the tone and the power out of the instrument that I associate with hard-core bluegrass. But he has amazing phrasing and incredible technical prowess. So it's all a matter of what moves you. But to discredit one or the other for being better or worse I think is missing the point of it all.

[AlanN]

The Kentucky Colonels were good at putting across a gospel tune. He Said If I Be Lifted Up off the old Sierra Brier Lp is a lesson in phrasing, vocals and overall feel, there is even some falsetto in there.

[cooper4205]

those Stanley gospel tunes really get me too, I mean if "I've Just Seen the Rock of Ages" or "I am the Man, Thomas" doesn't make the hair on the back of your neck stand up, I don't know what will.