Monroe's ibanez

[salleyann]

I can only imagine the look on their faces when they first saw that ad! Anyone have insider info from that era?

[Celtic Saguaro]

It has been discussed before. Basically Monroe was mad at Gibson for a botched repair job. Ibanez was making a better mandolin cheaper from Gibson plans than Gibson was in those days. It wasn't a big stretch to endorse something other than Gibson. The owners of Gibson sued Ibanez over their patents and won. But the damage to their credibility was done. Gibson was sold to others, the quality vastly improved and the company and Monroe patched up their differences.

[evanreilly]

Bill was given an Ibanez or three for his endorsement. Don Lewis, son of Ralph Lewis, now owns one that Bill gave to him.

[Big Joe]

It really did not bother the Gibson brass at that time. No one was all that concerned about mandolins then. It was not until a few years later that the mandolin was considered an instrument worth looking at. With Norlin as the owners, they were just concerned about keeping the doors open. What Bill Monroe was doing was so far under their radar you could not imagine.

[Dan Cole]

That poster is why I bought my Ibanez. I got my 524 in 1977. Still have the mandolin and the poster although I'm not certain where the poster is.

[pager]

I had one of those posters in my dorm room! Along with a door sized poster of Marlyn Cole, Playmate Of The Year. Ahh ... college art.

[Richard Polf]

It wasn't just mandolins --- I'm the proud owner and player of an Ibanez "Howard Roberts" (Gibson copy) "lawsuit" archtop guitar. Purchased in 1977 (a good year!) for $400, it's been my main axe ever since. A truly fine instrument. If I ever find one of these mandolins from that era for sale, I'll buy it. Like my "Roberts", I suspect they're "keepers". The 70's in general seem to have been a dark time for American manufacturing. Some say Martin guitars from that time are also inferior to those made today. # #

Richard Polf

[Tom Mullen]

That poster has a very young Richard Greene in the background.

[Ray(T)]

I have one almost identical to the one Bill is playing. I took delivery of it (in the UK) in July 1976. I suspect its an early one as it has no serial number and no mention of a model number - but it does have the fancy fretboard inlays, tortoiseshell pickguard and head veneer and gold plated hardware. As for its sound - its nowhere near as good as my Holoubek!

[evanreilly]

Interesting guess on it being Richard Greene in the background. I think the poster dat es from about 1976, when Bill toured Japan band Ralph Lewis was in the band. I suspect it was in that time period, in Japan, that Bill was presented with the Ibanez mandolins. By that period, Richard has long departed the BGB. I could be wrong, tho...
And that looks the suit and hat from the famous portrait of Bill available here as wallpaper. When I first found this picture, it was labeled as '1976'.

[Dan Cole]

I think Bill's Ibanez is actually a model 527, not the more comonly found 524. The 527 was a bit thicker/deeper when viewed from the side.

[f5loar]

Since I've got the suit and hat from that photo I can tell you what I know. True they are 1976 models. Not sure which one the Lewis boy has but at Monroe's auction in 2001 Amy Grant bought Ibanez Model 527 for her husband Vince Gil. So there were at least 2 given to Monroe for his endorsement in 1976. The bass player shown in the background is without any second guess Randy Davis. Did Monroe play it much? Probably the only time was during this one stage show in 1976 in Japan. You would be hard pressed finding another photo from the USA of him playing either one. If one is out there maybe they will post it here. How much did it effect Gibson at the time? Probably more then you think because only 2 years later did Gibson present as a gift in hopes of the start of reconcilation efforts a brand new hot off the shelf No.l 1978 F5L Fern model complete with pickguard (that's another story)along with an offer to repair free of charge anything that needed to be done to his beloved Loar as if he were the original owner. And then shortly after this Opry legends Billy Grammer and Chet Atkins told Monroe he should at least take Gibson up on their offer and allow Gibson to repair the headstock to the July 9 Loar which they did in Sept. 1980. Then came the Monroe signature model strings and Gibson was able to repair all ill feelings of the past retaining Monroe until he died as a major endorser of the Gibson F5 and Gibson strings.

[Timbofood]

Oh, Puleeeeaze! #I have a hard time believing this is a "real" question. Sorry, far more interesting things have been addressed through this venue. #Maybe I'm just being cranky. No harm, no foul.
I have to say that there are a lot of instruments from those years of pretty "fair sound." If you all want to start sending your money (in any amount), I'll be happy to put it toward the mandolin of my choice.

[james condino]

Don Lewis is a good freind of mine who lives a few minutes away here in Asheville. I've heard a story from him that is similar to Evan's regarding the mandolin and Monroe. If you want the real deal, come on up for a visit and see him and his pop, Raplh, playing with the Son's of Ralph at Jack of the Woods. Ask him yourself. You'll get the real deal- they are very friendly and approachable.
___

j.
www.condino.com

[f5loar]

It's part of the history of Bill Monroe and bluegrass music. You'll just have to get over it!

[swampstomper]

Timbofood, if the topic doesn't interest you, don't read it. I for one found it fascinating information.

[Timbofood]

Swamp, not an interest issue, Just a point of view. I have been around tese questions I guess they are starting to feel very repetitious, (and I did say "No harm, no fooul)
yee haa!

[MikeEdgerton]

I love the Lawsuit myth. Amazingly enough, L.D. Heater (a wholly owned subsidiary of Norlin, Gibson's parent company) was importing their Lyle brand guitars from Japan as visually identical copies of Gibson models as well (complete with headstock shape). 99.9% of the "lawsuit" instruments had nothing to do with any lawsuit. If your guitar is indeed a 77 then the headstock shape should already have been changed. If not, it's probably an earlier model. As a side note, the mandolins were never part of the equation.

[Mattg]

I found this very interesting. Thanks for post.

[Peter Hackman]

I owned an Ibanez för a short time; believe I bought it in 1976 and sold it in 1978 or 79. It was amazingly weak. It later transpired that Ibanez mandolins were known to deteriorate over time. The explanation was that the instruments were very thickly finished and lost volume when the finish
continued hardening.

[527]

I owned an Ibanez för a short time; believe I bought it in 1976 and sold it in 1978 or 79. It was amazingly weak. It later transpired that Ibanez mandolins were known to deteriorate over time. The explanation was that the instruments were very thickly finished and lost volume when the finish
continued hardening.

What a curious thing to say about all Ibanez mandolins deteriorating over time when you only owned one single Ibanez for "a short time". A very questionable generalization to make!

[Keith Erickson]

As a student of history, I find this story quite facinating. We all knew what happened to Monroe's Loar, so what happened to Monroe's Ibanez?

Inquiring minds would like to know

[mandocaster]

There is a plywood Ibanez A model from the 70's on the bay for BIN of $795.

That's about the funniest thing I've seen, and I love older Ibanez. I have a japanese es335 copy that is superb.

[f5loar]

Do you mean after Amy Grant bought it at the Estate auction, gave it to her husband Vince Gil for Christmas that year and Vince had it for sale a year later?
Not so sure he sold it. The price was up there well beyond the current value for same model not belonging to Monroe.
When you factor in he only played it once on stage for those promo photos (that can be documented) and the fact it's not that great of a mandolin by today's standards there would not be as much demand. I think Evan said there were actually 2 of those given to Monroe and Bluegrass Boy Ralph Lewis got the other one.

[allenhopkins]

The 70's in general seem to have been a dark time for American manufacturing. Some say Martin guitars from that time are also inferior to those made today. # #

I believe Martin introduced the HD-28 "herringbone" reissue in 1977, which started their climb back; I owned a '77 HD, since traded on the '40 00-42 "mongrel hybrid" I'm playing now, and it was a helluva guitar. They went back to scalloped bracing, maple bridgeplate, and specified "medium strings only," and the sound really woke up.