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Thread: Marty Stuart's F5

  1. #51
    still Lefty & French Philippe Bony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassgm View Post
    OK - here goes... my honest opinion;
    I don't get it! I must be missing something. I don't care whose names are on it... that mandolin looks absolutely terrible.
    If that is "mojo" then I'll do without it.

    I wonder what Lloyd Loar, Bill Monroe or Steve Gilchrist would think about it? LOL
    Bill Monroe did a lot of work with a knife on his own Loar!!!

  2. #52
    Registered User bluegrassgm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    It's true Bill Monroe famously did a bit of pen-knife work on the headstock but most of the wear and tear on his Loar (just like Sam Bush's Hoss) was through good ol' fashioned playing the thing. (and I love the look of those instruments for that reason)

    It's the notion of people just grabbing any sharp implement that's around then gouging their names into the timber of a fine instrument that I find hard to get my head around.

    Still... it's whatever floats your boat I guess.
    (it still just looks like a kids have had a graffiti party with it to me!)
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  3. #53
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassgm View Post
    OK - here goes... my honest opinion;
    I don't get it! I must be missing something. I don't care whose names are on it... that mandolin looks absolutely terrible.
    If that is "mojo" then I'll do without it.

    I wonder what Lloyd Loar, Bill Monroe or Steve Gilchrist would think about it? LOL
    I agree with you completely! I don't care who wants to sign my mandolin (not that anyone would anyway!) -- I say no. That's what paper is for.
    Bernie
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  4. #54
    Distressed Model John Ritchhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Some of us were waiting to go on stage at Merlefest and Marty came walking by. Someone said, Hey Marty, and he actually came over. The guy said, we're about to go on stage and we're nervous, any advice? Marty said, Close your eyes and go to a place that's deep, dark and blue..... We're like.. WHAT??!! Very funny. he's an interesting guy.
    We few, we happy few.

  5. #55
    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by jbrwky View Post
    ...snip...Very funny. he's an interesting guy.
    I was fortunate enough to chat with Marty for a few minutes after I took the photos posted above...Like a major nerd, I started the conversation with a comment based on a Mandolin Cafe thread I had been reading that day (can you believe it?)...

    I introduced myself, shook his hand, and told him it was an honor to meet him. Then I said (and yes, I actually said this to him)..."I have you on my Mount Rushmore of mandolin players, along with: Mike Marshall, David Grisman, and Bill." (I almost couldn't believe I had just said something this corny).

    His reaction?...He smiled widely and said: "Ed, that's some tall cotton you got me in there!" - (How great is that! ), Then he said, without missing a beat..."You know that Mike Marshall is CRAZY...He sure can play, but he's crazy!"

    Needless to say, it was a brief conversation that I'll remember forever.

    What a cool guy!
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
    "What a long, strange trip it's been..." - Robert Hunter
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  7. #56
    Registered User Murphy Slaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Great stories. I emailed his fan club for any info he could share about Scotty Stoneman because he played with Scotty, but never heard anything back.
    1933 Gibson A-00 (was Scotty Stoneman's)
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  8. #57
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Any of you that have the RFD-TV channel, Marty has a great show being shown this week, it`s a repeat...He is really pushing his new CD, "Ghost Train", but he pays tributes to a few of the people that influenced his career...

    I never cared for Marty`s way of doing MC work but he is a fine musician and also gives a lot of credit to people that have helped him on his way up....This week he features songs that he has written, one for Connie, his wife, another for his dad....

    No mandolin playing tho....Willie

  9. #58
    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    ...snip...I never cared for Marty`s way of doing MC work but he is a fine musician...snip...Willie
    Hi Willie; what is it about Marty's MC that you don't like?

    Would you say that your favorite MC is a more strict, Bluegrass-type of mandolin style/content?

    I'm not asking to be contrary, or to start a scrap, I just trying to identify what it is about Marty Stuart's mandolin playing that I like so much...and I'm thinking that what you dislike, and what I like, might be the exact same thing.

    I'm relatively new to the mandolin (been playing and listening seriously for about 9 months), and the players and playing styles I have identified as favorites (Marty Stuart, Tim O'Brien, Rebecca Lovell, John Paul Jones, Norman Blake, and Levon Helm to name a few) seem to be heavily influenced by the Blues and Rock, and not the strict Bluegrass approach.

    I'm therefore curious as to whether you find Stuart's mandolin style not 'Bluegrass enough'.

    Thanks much.
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
    "What a long, strange trip it's been..." - Robert Hunter
    "Life is too important to be taken seriously." - Oscar Wilde
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  10. #59
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hilburn View Post
    I'm really intrigued by that era when it was obvious there was a demand for F-5's and no big companies interested in filling the demand. It started with the conversions and then into the custom builds, whether or not they were intended to decieve.
    This lead directly to the number of custom builders we have today. Gibson likes to portray themselves as the venerable old company that invented the F-5 but in fact are latecomers to the party.
    By the way, this is not Gibson bashing, just my take on how it is.
    Please explain. 1) in fact Gibson IS an old company (pre-1900 and so is about the oldest active mandolin builder here in the USA anyway, (you can debate the venerable part; and 2) Gibson Mandolin & Guitar Company DID invent the F-5 in 1922! Before that there were NO F-5 mandolins.
    Bernie
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  11. #60
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    Any of you that have the RFD-TV channel, Marty has a great show being shown this week, it`s a repeat...He is really pushing his new CD, "Ghost Train", but he pays tributes to a few of the people that influenced his career...

    I never cared for Marty`s way of doing MC work but he is a fine musician and also gives a lot of credit to people that have helped him on his way up....This week he features songs that he has written, one for Connie, his wife, another for his dad....

    No mandolin playing tho....Willie
    Yeah the Marty Stuart Show is the highlight of my viewing week (although I watch very little TV aside of the news) and RFD TV is just great from 6 pm to midnight every Saturday (Gaither Gospel Hour, Presley Family show from Branson, Midwest County Show from Sandstone, MN, Cumberland Highlanders from Rosine!

    That Ghost Train review show last week was awesome -- Marty is a fine man.
    Bernie
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  12. #61
    Registered User Bill Snyder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Ed I could be wrong but when Willie said he doesn't like Marty's way of doing MC work I thought of master of ceremonies.
    Bill Snyder

  13. #62
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Snyder View Post
    Ed I could be wrong but when Willie said he doesn't like Marty's way of doing MC work I thought of master of ceremonies.
    Marty has Eddie Stubbs for the MC job. None better for that!

    Regarding the earlier comment about no mandolin (#57) -- it depends. Some shows he plays several mandolin numbers -- others none.
    Bernie
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  14. #63
    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Snyder View Post
    Ed I could be wrong but when Willie said he doesn't like Marty's way of doing MC work I thought of master of ceremonies.
    Bill, if you're right, how funny is that?
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
    "What a long, strange trip it's been..." - Robert Hunter
    "Life is too important to be taken seriously." - Oscar Wilde
    Think Hippie Thoughts...
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  15. #64

    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    I first became aware of mandolins and bluegrass in the early 70's. Many had been into it in the 60's or even the 50's when the festival scene was really getting underway. There were a lot of people looking for Martins, Gibson banjo's and mandolins.
    Suppose you went looking for a mandolin in '65. Gibson made F-5's then but the were nothing like the mandolins of the 20's. You would be hard pressed to find one that would give a satisfactory sound if you wanted to sound like Monroe. And it still was pretty pricey. The market was in guitars and mainly electric guitars. Mandolins were just a sideline at the time.
    There were no imports other than European designs which weren't suited to bluegrass. In the used market, the Loars were pretty much spoken for or selling for as much as a car and only a few would make that commitment. There were the Gibsons from the 30's,40,s and 50,s. The build quality was always good but the tone quality wasn't. That's why early luthiers started taking them apart and re-graduating them. Oh, yeah, there were Harmony's and Stella's.
    Then there was a handful of guys who realized that if you wanted a good bluegrass mandolin you were going to have to make it yourself. By the mid 70's there was a good number of guys making mandolins and Chris Warner was one of them.

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  17. #65
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hilburn View Post
    I first became aware of mandolins and bluegrass in the early 70's. Many had been into it in the 60's or even the 50's when the festival scene was really getting underway. There were a lot of people looking for Martins, Gibson banjo's and mandolins.
    Suppose you went looking for a mandolin in '65. Gibson made F-5's then but the were nothing like the mandolins of the 20's. You would be hard pressed to find one that would give a satisfactory sound if you wanted to sound like Monroe. And it still was pretty pricey. The market was in guitars and mainly electric guitars. Mandolins were just a sideline at the time.
    There were no imports other than European designs which weren't suited to bluegrass. In the used market, the Loars were pretty much spoken for or selling for as much as a car and only a few would make that commitment. There were the Gibsons from the 30's,40,s and 50,s. The build quality was always good but the tone quality wasn't. That's why early luthiers started taking them apart and re-graduating them. Oh, yeah, there were Harmony's and Stella's.
    Then there was a handful of guys who realized that if you wanted a good bluegrass mandolin you were going to have to make it yourself. By the mid 70's there was a good number of guys making mandolins and Chris Warner was one of them.
    Oh, I agree with every point you make there -- in fact I kind of followed the same path of "mandolin awareness" -- in terms of style and quality (an about the same time period too). Certainly the Gibson company lost their way after WWII and for a long time thereafter at least in mandolins.

    And certainly the private builders moved in to fill a real need. My only point was -- and it is not big deal -- Gibson is still the Godfather of the American mandolin and they still get the credit for inventing the F-5 mandolin -- despite their obvious period of disrepute.

    Of course in the early 1970's a new car could be had for $3 - 4K. When exactly did the prices started jumping up on the Loars? What year was did that transaction take place where Frank Wakefield bought two Gibson mandolins -- a Loar signed F-5 and an F-4 one afternoon in Columbus Ohio for a total of $200? It was related on the Mandolin Extravaganza CD.
    Bernie
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  18. #66

    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    The first number I heard in the early 70's for a Loar was $4k. There are several guys posting here that were in the game in those days.
    Everyone was trying to find that little old lady with one under the bed that they could get for $200.
    Bernie, we're on the same page about Gibson. I'm glad they hired Loar when they did.

  19. #67
    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Finding a new Gibson F5 in '65 or '66 was pretty tough. They only made 15 in '65 and 11 in '66 so you had to turn to the used market which was even harder as any picker that had a real Gibson F5 was unlikely to get rid of it at any price. That's what created a market, the shortage of Gibson not making many of them , bad or good. While one could argue it was not a great sounding F5 many pros still used them. It was still a high end professional grade model and Gibson was the only game in town back then. Late 60's saw the upswing in Gibson copies and the 70's saw an increase in the import market which was making them better then Gibson in the 70's whos remake of the classic F5 was worse then the 60's. It was not until 1978 when pickers realized Gibson may have struck gold again in the F5 with the new F5L and they started to regain the market back.

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  21. #68
    Registered User bernabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippe Bony View Post
    Bill Monroe did a lot of work with a knife on his own Loar!!!
    I believe it was Marty [when he was a teen] who walked in on Bill backstage one night while he was scratching up his mandolin with a Knife. Bills reply, "maybe now no one will want to pick it up". He apparently had a problem with folks playin his mandolin.

  22. #69
    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    That would have been teenager Sonny Osborne (who was a Bluegrass Boy at the time) in the early 50's when he saw Monroe take a knife to the finish back stage at the Opry. Marty was not born when that took place.

  23. #70
    Hester Mandolins Gail Hester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    It's interesting the way that story seems to have a life oif it's own. I was talking to Ronnie McCoury a couple weeks ago after his show here in WA and he related the same thing that f5loar said, that Sonny Osborne heard a scrapping sound and went to see what Bill was doing and found him scrapping the laquer oversparay off with a knife. He said he didn't like the way it sounded with that thick finish on there.
    Gail Hester

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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Ed, I love Marty`s mandolin playing, I think he is right up there at the top of the list along with Ronnie McCoury, Doyle Lawson, and Bobby Osborne....Just to name a few....It WAS in fact his way of talking that I was refering to, I sometimes hear him slur his words but I am an old man and don`t hear as good as you young un`s...I am a friend of Eddie Stubbs and they don`t come any better than him when it comes to MC work.....

    In my band I am the leader and one thing I have found in 50 years of playing is that enunciation (sp) of your words when talking on stage is something that is very improtant, you can bore the crowd to death if they can`t understand you and they get bored by you talking too much, unless you are Ron Thomason of Dry Branch Fire Squad, a great story teller...

    I tape every one of Martys shows and get some good material from them....Willie

  25. #72
    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Thanks Willie. That's pretty funny (me thinking your MC meant 'mandolin content', and going so in depth in my post)

    I love the Marty Stuart Show also, and watch it every week on RFD. My two favorite mandolin moments on the show so far were when Marty performed 'Walkin Through the Prayers', and when he and Connie Smith performed 'Wayfaring Stranger'. Just awesome!

    Also, The Quebe Sisters were on the 'Wayfaring Stranger' episode...That was a great show.
    c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 Mandolin
    "What a long, strange trip it's been..." - Robert Hunter
    "Life is too important to be taken seriously." - Oscar Wilde
    Think Hippie Thoughts...
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  26. #73

    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    I will finally put the question to rest as to who made Marty Stuart's autographed mandolin. It was me , Chris Warner. I originally built it for Roland White and when delivered, Roland was not playing at the time and didn't need it. Marty was living with Roland. As I remember, Marty was about 13 years old. Marty ended up buying the mandolin and the rest is history.
    Chris Warner

  27. #74
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Goist View Post
    Thanks Willie. That's pretty funny (me thinking your MC meant 'mandolin content', and going so in depth in my post)

    I love the Marty Stuart Show also, and watch it every week on RFD. My two favorite mandolin moments on the show so far were when Marty performed 'Walkin Through the Prayers', and when he and Connie Smith performed 'Wayfaring Stranger'. Just awesome!

    Also, The Quebe Sisters were on the 'Wayfaring Stranger' episode...That was a great show.
    Definitely one of my favorite episodes of the series too. I also like his "What will become of the working man" though its not one of the mandolin songs.

    Some keep asking RFD-TV to turn it into a one hour show --but I hope they don't. I've learned to savor every minute the show and it would be hard to keep it a fresh if it were twice as long each week. Did you buy the first year highlights DVD?

    LeRoy Troy is great and he's a hoot but I'd like to see him less often maybe every other week or so -- then have the guests or Connie do a second number. And I wish Eddie Stubbs would get out the fiddle more often. But those are just opinions.

    Good to hear the confirmation by Chris Warner that he made the mandolin. Given Marty's success he could have about any mandolin he wanted so its a fine tribute to the builder that he has stuck with it all these years. Anything special about the mandolin that comes to mind as far as its construction?
    Bernie
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  28. #75
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Stuart's F5

    Chris,
    Welcome to the Cafe' and thank you for setting the record straight. You can see that we are a pretty obsessive lot here.
    I posted the picture ealier in the thread of one of your mandos that I used to own.
    Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band

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