Dude #35

[G. Fisher]

I'm willing to bet that if Chris Thiles' mando of choice was a Kentucky KM1000. He still would have become as popular and sold as many Cds.

[ortha]

Great conversation.
I guess I've always wondered who is buying these expensive mandolins. Are these wealthy people with novice skills, or musicians who can earn money with them? I've played mandolin exclusively for 7 years and other stringed instruments for about 20. I've often considered upgrading from my A-9 in hopes of gaining a better sound or to increase my presence. Truth be told, the only thing limiting how good I sound right now are my skills. I've found it's easy to sound pretty good on mandolin, but very difficult to sound superb. The instrument in question is just one piece of the puzzle from my experience. So I guess if you look at it as an investment it's one thing, but if you are mislead into thinking it will make you a virtuoso... This could be a very expensive and slippery slope. Cheers.

[Glassweb]

I wonder how many contributors to this thread know that Lynn is CONSTANTLY in demand by many Loar owners to do repair, refret or setup work on their precious Loar F5's. Needless to say, the Dude relishes the opportunity (as does Gilchrist) to study, play (sure... the Dude can PLAY!) and take measurements in order to learn, appreciate and better understand why so many for so long have held these Loar F5's in the highest regard. I have nothing but admiration for ALL the builders who are trying to create great F5 style mandolins. When I first started playing back in 1970 choices (other than old Gibsons) were almost non-existant! Boy have times changed in the mandolin world... and for the better...

[Any Day Now]

"The master can do more with one string on the cheapest instrument, then the novice can do with the finest"

[mythicfish]

"Quality will remain long after price is forgotten! This Dude could wind up in the hands of the next Thile and become the next "Hoss". After selling a million CDs and making millions touring with it will this price matter?"

I admit that I know next to nothing about these well-known musicians or their choice of instruments. What was Mr Thiele
playing when he was "the next Grisman"?

Curt

[sgarrity]

He played a Gibson F5L for quite a while if I remember correctly

[Bradley]

Judging by the pictures I have seen it was a Gibson during his early projects...Like someone said earlier he could have played anything and been the talent that he is.

I still like the question of where are these mandolins being played...If you owned one would you really want to take it to a normal gig let alone a jam session. I certainly wouldnt be comfortable with doing that, but thats my opinion. As far as the Moolah goes, heck if you have it spend it and enjoy it. But my gosh thats alot of Money, and those cant be 3.5 times as good as a Ellis,Collings V, or a Heiden, or 2.5 times as good as a Master Model, or 4.5 times as good as a Kimble.

[Brian Ray]

My .664805212 Thai baht...

1. I've had the pleasure of playing some of Mr. Dudenbostel's mandolins... they are absolutely glorious.
2. Folks' threshold for monetary pain varies greatly
3. To me, paying 40k+ for a car is crazy (no offense crazy people). I mean every time I see a BMW, I think "That obviously compensating marketing jerk could have had a 'Dude'"! (no offense obviously compensating marketing jerks)
4. Pudding is delicious

[Jonathan James]

Good points, Dasspunk, particulary #4. (from a non-compensating marketing jerk without a Dude).

[JEStanek]

Interesting discussion. I'll be satisfied with a Dude ballcap. Does the selling price on the Dudenbostel diminsh the value of anyone else's instrument? It hasn't made my instruments any more or less valuable.

Jamie

[sgarrity]

If I owned one, I'd take it to every jam session I went to and let any reasonable person that wanted to play it, play it. If Joshua Bell and Yo-Yo Ma can tour and play their $3.5 million Strads, I don't see the problem with playing a good mandolin out in public.

[mythicfish]

"To me, paying 40k+ for a car is crazy (no offense crazy people)."

My take on this is a bit closer to the bone:
Whenever I hear an expensive mandolin described as having "great chop/bark and trebles that peel paint" all that comes
to mind is an ax, a junkyard dog, and a heat gun. That's a lot of money to play for three chords and a cloud of dust.

Curt

[Mando Medic]

A few years ago, I acquired a Dudenbostel, #9 to be exact. I paid $11,500 for it and sold it about two months later for $14,500. When I put it up for sale on the Cafe, the war drums began beating. Lynn was very supportive of the price as it allowed him to raise the price on his next batches of instruments. I don't know what his base price for a F-5 is currently, but you can be sure that it probably falls within the current selling price of this current one if it sells for the asking price. By the same token, I'm sure that each time this happens, it also raises the bar for prices on other builders who may fall into the same league as Lynn. It's about supply and demand and percieved value. By the way, That was a stunning mandolin to play and I wish I could have hung on to it, but it was not to be. I was asked recently if I thought it was now worth $28,000, and my answer was and still is yes. I too feel that if Chris had chosen a Kentucky to play, (but why would he?) Lynn's mandolins would still be worth the money. Kenc

[AlanN]

I too feel that if Chris had chosen a Kentucky to play, (but why would he?)

Hope John Moore ain't reading this

[Kirk Albrecht]

It would be interesting to see just what Lynn feels about this price of a used, but basically new instrument. Could be the seller merely bought it in order to re-sell it at a huge profit - that would be my guess given when it was finished, and what he probably paid knowing Lynn's policy of honoring prices at time of order.

This thing happened to Jim Olson with his guitars a few years ago. Led to him closing his order list (at about 200 instruments), and significantly raising his new price to be close to what the frenzied used market was commanding. He was not happy at all with how things were going as I recall, feeling that some were just buying to make a profit, and he thought he was really losing money because a guitar he sold new (honoring prices quoted at time of order) was then turned around and re-sold for 2-3 times his price.

In the end, it is what the market can and will bear in our economy, but is there a moral / ethical grid about this kind of stuff, or is it just, do it if you can?

[bradeinhorn]

In the end, it is what the market can and will bear in our economy, but is there a moral / ethical grid about this kind of stuff, or is it just, do it if you can?

it is do it if you can - lest we get into another whiny thread about "Flatirons" being made by a company who bought them out, in China. Boo hoo.

these instruments are serious money and those wise enough or lucky enough to get onto the list of a builder whose prices begin to sky rocket on the secondary market are more than entitled to flip their purchase as they would any other investment. I don't see any issue of moral or ethical concern. If a builder is unhappy with what is happening, he can go about his business without the security of waitlists and just build and sell what he churns out for whatever the market will accept. Just because we love and have affection for these objects doesn't mean they or their makers are owed some special moral duty.

[mandopete]

Man, I want some o' dat $35K pudding!

[Timbofood]

Just keep in miind that old jewelers saying:
"It isn't precious until we make it so." That being said, I hope Mr. D. has many years to build and repair to his heart's content. We, as the "buying public" can simply choose not to pay what we feel is an over-inflated price and thereby not add to the feeding frenzy.
However, Had I the wherewithall and desire I doubt that I would feel a gun to my head while I handed the money over. It is hard to put monetary value on a "Sound" investment don't you think?

[JEStanek]

I'm the kinda guy that says Dudenbostels sound delicious...

Inspired by LL Cool J.

Jamie

[Flowerpot]

I would not want to own a Dude in brand new condition.

Why? Because I would want to play it, and take it everywhere, play the heck out of it, and let lots of other people try it. But I'd also need to keep it in 100% cosmetic condition for resale. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

(Cosmetics account for quite a bit in the high-end market.)

If I spent the megabucks on it, I couldn't afford to take it out into the elements. In my living room, things are pretty controlled, but in a parking lot or unlit field, it only takes one second of "oops" to come away with a $10,000 scratch, scuff, or ding.

I'd need to know that I could resell the thing if an emergency came up, and that would mean handling it with kid gloves... so no thanks. There's a practical reason for new distressed models.

[Jerry Byers]

I'd need to know that I could resell the thing if an emergency came up, and that would mean handling it with kid gloves... so no thanks. There's a practical reason for new distressed models.

Nothing personal, but if you're buying with resell in mind, then you're a collector. The return on investment should be the satisfaction gained through playing the instrument.

I don't think I would buy a high-end mandolin if I knew that I couldn't play it because I might 'wear' down the resell value. It would turn into "I have a great sounding instrument - but don't touch it, lest you damage it or reduce its value."

I think we're reaching the upper limits of sane prices. Loar mandolins justify the price asked because of limited supply and name association. All others are meant to be played.

[Jonathan Peck]

Amen to that! #When I saw that bluegrass DVD recorded at Gray Fox where it rained most of the time I wondered what people thought of Ronnie up there with his Gilchrist, Chris with his Dude, and Tim with his Nugget. #Had these guys borrowed Michael Jackson's hyperbaric oxygen chamber for the festival or what?

In the summer, I attend as many performances as I can of the Bridgehampton Chamber music festival. It was two years back, I think, that the performance I was attending started nearly two hours late. The first violinist was without his violin which was sitting in traffic on it's way back from repair. The day before, there was a big rain storm, and in the spirit of the show must go on, they tried to brave the elements and get the performance in for everyone who was brave enough to stick it out.

Unfortunately the violin, a stradivarious which is one of the ones that are loaned out to gifted young artists, got wet and was rushed back to NYC for repair(hyde glue). The instrument finally did arrive and the show went on.

The point is that these are professional musicians playing ticketed shows. I doubt that any of you, myself included, are going play our instruments in the rain unless we is getting paid to perform, in which case, the show must go on.

[Greg H.]

When the Post got Joshua Bell to play at L’Enfant Plaza subway stop in DC he insisted on playing his strad. I think for a lot of musicians it's a matter of if you're going to play you want to sound your best. . .no matter where you're playing or who your audience is. In a strictly monetary comparison taking a $35,000 Dude to a bluegrass festival or a jam session becomes rather inconsequential.

But then at this point I wouldn't take my instruments out were they not insured. . . . .and all of them put together wouldn't come close to $35,000.

[squirrelabama]

"I would trade my Loar, and play on a (insert "cheapo" mando brand here) for the ability to play like Sam Bush" .....well known vintage instrument dealer, January 2006.

I for one am beginning to apply more crediblity to the theory that there is a bit of a "false economy" going on in the "recent build" mando re-sale world. People will argue that supply and demand is generating this, however I challenge anyone to place a want-ad on the classifieds for a Nugget, Gil, or Dude, etc., and see how many(ie: the supply)are really readily available....you'd be shocked.

[Jonathan Peck]

I don't know why you all think that these great mandolins, new or old... Gibson or Gil or Dude or whatever don't get played and are just placed in "glass cases". You're absolutely wrong if you believe that! All the people I know that have Loars, Gils, Dudes, Nuggets, Montes... etc... ACTUALLY PLAY THEM - THE HORROR! They actually travel with them - THE ABSURDITY! They even play them at bluegrass festivals out in the open in the humid summer air - ARREST THESE SCOUNDRELS! Get a grip people... all I can say is if you've got a Loar or a Dude or a Gil stored away in a vault you really ought to start playing it, cause if you die tomorrow... well, YOU BLEW IT!

Maybe so, but go and take a look at the thread "Derrington Signed Mandolins". Almost every mandolin has the pick guard on, the full fingerboard extension, no sweat stains, and no scratches and dings.

When I bought my Derrington signed MM, the first thing I did was remove the pick guard (which is stored away and easily re-installed). Mine has a speed neck with an oil finish, and I'm picking it up in a few hours from having the extension scooped. In the short time that I've had it, I've already put some sweat stains on it and a few dings and scratches.

The first thing I did was put heavier gauge J-75 strings on it which helped alot with pick click, but I had to decide, was I going to play it or look at it. All you "I'm not a collector types" might be surprised to find that you is and just don't want to admit it. Like was said a little earlier, you either is or you ain't going to play it.