Dude #35

[Jonathan Peck]

Anybody else happen to notice this? Born on 1/07 and already up for adoption. Good thing my MAS is cured or else I might be living in a van down by the river.

(no financial interest)

[Jonathan James]

Looks amazing. Would love to hear some clips...

[bradeinhorn]

with all due respect, i think it is just outrageous. and i say that after just finishing a biography on stradivari.

[Jonathan Peck]

I don't think that it's outrageous. He is at the top of a short list of premier builders. Frankly, I've never really understood why mandolin's cost so much less than violins considering how many hours it takes to make one, and why violins appreciate in value while mandolins depreciate the moment you walk out of the store with them. A premier violin maker would get much more than that for a new instrument, and it would appreciate in value.

This is only instrument #35. Because there are only a limited number of Dudes out there I would think that they are very desireable from a collector standpoint. I think that the odds are pretty high that this one will end up in a collectors case.

-jonathan

[om21ed]

chances are good that with a mandolin of that quality in the house he's also got a pretty darn good security system

[evanreilly]

I have asked the Dude how many hours, best guess, he spends on his instruments, specifically the mandolins. His best-guess estimate is about 250 hours.
And if he finished #35 in January, he just finished (May) #38. He takes his time and puts the time into his instruments.

[Uncle Pen]

I had an instrument custom made once, then shortly after decided I didn't like it. I called the maker and told him I was selling. He gave me the name of a guy on his 2 year waiting list and I sold it the next day.
I wonder how much Mr. Dudenbostel sold #35 for...

[bradeinhorn]

Value clearly has many facets and I think it's important to address and recognize all of these. I do not mean to undercut the quality of the dude mandolin, builder, or the amount of hours put in, etc., but I find it hard to believe that with all the phenomenally talented equally hard-working builders that we all come across and patronize each day around here, that one is putting out instruments that are 3-10 times better than some of the other highly reconized builders. Much of it just has to be name recognition, particular artist endorsement, etc... i mean come on. I mean, I get it to a certain point, but from a player/utilitarian standpoint, I don't know how I could rationalize the purchase when I could find one mandolin for each day of the week I'd be honored to own for the same price.

And as to violins, a) with so much pressure to own the antique instruments (from player and collector standpoint, i'm not so sure that most modern builder's violins don't take a hit on the secondary market as mandolins do (as was suggested above), and b) violins in general are a safer investment as they are likely the recognized king of classical instruments. The mandolin is a few notches down in respectability (no one is mistaking violins for banjos). The day even chris thile (sorry to bring him up) commands the ticket price of joshua bell will probably not happen any time soon.

[Elliot Luber]

In pricing, and no where else, perception is the cutting edge of reality. If no one was paying that kind of money for a Dude, no would be asking for it.

[Jonathan Peck]

Clearly, if you are making a mandolin and selling it for 4-8K, the point at which you say "it's good enough" is going to be different than if you are making a mandolin and selling for 18-25K. I think that as an independent full time luthier who is trying to make a living, you have to draw the line somewhere. There are luthiers who maximize output, and there are luthiers who maximize an individual instrument.

Perception in the market plays a big part I think. When someone buys a fine violin, they expect it to hold it's value. I doubt anybody would be selling many violins for 50K if the re-sale was going to be 30K. When you buy a mandolin for 8K you hope that it's going to retain it's value. Part of what makes Dude's more valuable (IMHO) is that there are less of them, meaning that it should hold it's value and likely appreciate in time AND they are built to a higher standard than most other instruments.

-jonathan

[bradeinhorn]

Clearly, if you are making a mandolin and selling it for 4-8K, the point at which you say "it's good enough" is going to be different than if you are making a mandolin and selling for 18-25K. I think that as an independent full time luthier who is trying to make a living, you have to draw the line somewhere. There are luthiers who maximize output, and there are luthiers who maximize an individual instrument.

i don't get that - care to elaborate? good enough in what regard?

[Hans]

Chris Thile?
Don't believe I'd put him in the same sentence with Joshua Bell... #

[Steven Stone]

The question for me is simple - given the asking price, is this Dude, or any Dude for that matter, worth $10K more than Gilchrist or Nugget?

I know my own answer to that question...

[evanreilly]

Without opening the 'who is best?' argument, I would assess Chris Thile to be to the mandolin what Mr. Bell is to the violin.
Remember the recent experiment wherein Joshua Bell played as a street busker in a Washington D.C. metro station? Mostly totally ignored, he was!

[f5loar]

I'll have to disagree about your "asking" price. A seller on ebay was asking $675,000 for a Fern Loar and he didn't get it. Gruhn has a Fern Loar for a mere $200,000 and I bet he gets it. It happens to anything money can buy these days. A Tom McKinley copy capo is $120. A Paige capo is $15. They both do the same thing. At least we have a choice. Some countries only allow one choice....theirs!

[Jonathan Peck]

"i don't get that - care to elaborate? good enough in what regard?"


Time = Money = Diminishing Returns

I think your going to reach a point whre you have to ask yourself "is it perfect, no. Is it good enough?" If the answer is no, it's not good enough, then you have to spend more time, thus you have diminishing returns on your time. If time = money, then you either have to charge more, or spend less time, or you have to accept a lower wage until you can raise your pricing and still have a market.

You obviously don't need a 25K mandolin to play bluegrass, but that's not what we're talking about here. What were're talking about is that I don't think that 33K is obscene for one of Lynn's mandolins.

[Spruce]

Another tipping point in the works...?

Nah...

[mandopete]

I'll bet it sells pretty quick.

[KennyR]

Are those details between 6k mandolin and a 33k mandolin with the extra money? I’d say no, but I can't afford a 6k mandolin let alone 33k. I think you are paying for the prestige of the builder, and Dudenbostel does have plenty of prestige. The small details are nice, but those are some expensive small details.

[Jonathan Peck]

I think the BIG difference is that at this point in time there are only 38 Dudes in existance. That makes them very hard to come by....and if I'm not mistaken, Lynn's waiting list is closed. This is going to make them very attractive to collectors, and if you are not already on the waiting list, the only way to get one is from a previous owner who is looking to cash out. This is why I think that this one will probably wind up in a glass case and why I also think that 33K is not obscene.

-jonathan

[G. Fisher]

No Thile.
No Dude hysteria.

They are good mandos but there are several mandos as good for less than a fifth the price.

I know there will be those who will say they knew Dudes were going to be this big before Thile. But, I have a hard time believing that.

Another problem I see is that they will probably go to collectors and not get played and that is a shame.

[Any Day Now]

Joshua Bell is an incredible player, but he himself admits that he is not as strong on the compositional side of things. Chris Thile has the talent as both an instrumentalist and a composer. Most people who don't think Chris is really "that" good have only heard him with Nickel Creek. And also remember he is only 25, and he will only get better.

[Jonathan Peck]

No Thile.
No Dude hysteria.

But there is a Thile and there is Dude hysteria, just like there was a Monroe and there is Loar hysteria.

[first string]

I think the BIG difference is that at this point in time there are only 38 Dudes in existance. That makes them very hard to come by....and if I'm not mistaken, Lynn's waiting list is closed. This is going to make them very attractive to collectors, and if you are not already on the waiting list, the only way to get one is from a previous owner who is looking to cash out. This is why I think that this one will probably wind up in a glass case and why I also think that 33K is not obscene.

-jonathan

I wonder what effect that scarcity will have in the long term. Certainly at the moment it seems to be driving the prices ever northward. That said we have discussed in the past the long term prospects (in terms of monetary value) of luthier made instruments, and some have argued--citing Stradivari's extremely high output--that only a prolific builder will be able to maintain that kind of presence over the centuries.

[grandmainger]

No Thile.
No Dude hysteria.

But there is a Thile and there is Dude hysteria, just like there was a Monroe and there is Loar hysteria.

Good point. Well put too.