Taking 1st class mando pictures

**danb** · May-01-2007, 6:18pm

Originally Posted by (Jim Hilburn @ May 01 2007, 22:08)

Getting correct color is the hardest part.

One trick I've used for that is a color calibration bar. They show the various colors in sample ranges, you photograph it with the instrument (or slightly outside the composition) then it's quite easy to color-correct, you can work to getting the sample bars correct and the rest of the scene (the instrument) is sorted out for you.

The problem with computer screens is that the shades of red or the number of colors required to show a sunburst with a smooth blend is simply beyond the capabilities of the media, you tend to get sunbursts showing sharper distinctions than really exist.

Generally speaking, because those calibration bars also have a greyscale on them, you can use the photoshop auto-levels to get some pretty good results quickly.

**danb** · May-01-2007, 6:28pm

Did some googling.. you can search for
color separation guide to find them- they look like this

**sunburst** · May-01-2007, 10:50pm

I use the white side of a 'gray card' to set the white balance in the camera before I shoot the first picture, then again any time I change the focal length, the distance from the subject, or just about anything else. As long as I don't have different colors of light coming from different sources, (another reason to shoot inside at night) the camera gives me pretty true colors, and I seldom have to correct color in photoshop. I usually have to correct brightness, contrast, and sharpness though. I'm hoping my ship will come in bearing a camera that does a better job of those things. You know how players figure a new mandolin will make them into better players? Well, I'm hoping a better camera will make me into a better photographer!

**JEStanek** · May-02-2007, 7:33am

I will say that moving from a Gateway branded Toshiba PhD digital camera to a Nikon D40 made all the difference in the world with my digital photography. #There are many sites that sell these SLR digital cameras pretty cheap. #Where I got burned, and #I'll pass along to you all so it doesn't happen to you, was getting charged $600 for a 2 Gig SD card and the battery and charger. #I could have spent 1/5 of that on Amazon for those extra bits. #The company's return policy was ridiculous and I didn't know better. #Their price on the camera body and two lenses was very good though.

For the price of a mid-mo or 500 series Eastman you can be taking pictures easier! #That's still a fair bit of money though.

Jamie

**first string** · May-02-2007, 7:46am

Originally Posted by (JEStanek @ May 02 2007, 08:33)

Where I got burned, and I'll pass along to you all so it doesn't happen to you, was getting charged $600 for a 2 Gig SD card and the battery and charger. I could have spent 1/5 of that on Amazon for those extra bits. The company's return policy was ridiculous and I didn't know better. Their price on the camera body and two lenses was very good though.

A lot of times these places won't sell you just the camera if you don't get the whole overpriced package from them. You try to order just the camera, and they will email you and tell you it is out of stock, or back ordered, or whatever. The old bait and switch is becoming much more common in the camera retailing world unfortunately. As a rule of thumb, if their prices are lower than that of say, B & H photo, KEH Camera, or Cameta, chances are they aren't completely legit.

I am exceedingly thankful that this kind of practice is almost nonexistent in the world of mandolins. I think in a way that we are extremely fortunate that the market for mandos is as small as it is. Because of that limited size, it would be pretty detrimental to any business to engage in any such unsavory practices, as word of mouth would put them out of business in no time.

**Bill Snyder** · May-02-2007, 8:02am

Originally Posted by (first string @ May 02 2007, 07:46)

Because of that limited size, it would be pretty detrimental to any business to engage in any such unsavory practices, as word of mouth would put them out of business in no time.

I don't know about that. There is a music store in New Mexico whose poor business practices have been discussed over and over at the Mandolin Cafe that is still in business.

**Hans** · May-02-2007, 8:23am

Yea, the mandolin is six hundred bucks, but the strings'll cost ya 4 grand! I've had some bad experiences with orders over the phone, where I have canceled the order after 5 minutes of arguing. One time after I gave them my credit card number and cancelled it, they charged a computer to my acctount. I had to change my card # and it took a month for the credit card company to track them down.
Watch out for those camera/lens kits too. You get the cheap glass with the body, no card, no batteries, and an international warranty which is no good in the USA. Of course the extended 2 year warranty costs 800 bucks.

**first string** · May-02-2007, 8:30am

Originally Posted by (Curious @ May 02 2007, 09:02)

Originally Posted by (first string @ May 02 2007, 07:46)

Because of that limited size, it would be pretty detrimental to any business to engage in any such unsavory practices, as word of mouth would put them out of business in no time.

I don't know about that. There is a music store in New Mexico whose poor business practices have been discussed over and over at the Mandolin Cafe that is still in business.

Are you referring to FOTW? Didn't they almost go out of business, until they were taken over by new management? I could have my story all wrong, but that was what I heard from someone or other.

**JEStanek** · May-02-2007, 9:32am

Mine was at least Nikon lenses (not particularly fast at 5.6 but serviceable). So my message to any camera purchasers is if you find a good deal don't get snookered by cards, battery chargers and battery at high prices when you can get them elsewhere for cheap.

WRT FOTW. They have redone many things and have a link to the Better Business Bureau on their front page. Their BBB info is from Feb 2007 but no complaints have been registered since then. They seem to be trying to recover a decent reputation. Anyway not related to cameras and mando pictures...

If anyone wants specifics on my experiece contact me offline. I've since found better resources but this isn't the place to do it.

Jamie

**Keith Erickson** · May-02-2007, 10:54am

Originally Posted by (mandohack @ April 28 2007, 17:32)

Dan has been known to take some scary pictures. Like this one you could use to frighten animals and small children (note you can tell it's London, with the Tube Map in my pocket. "Mind the Gap!"):

Hey Ted,

I could tell immediately by that look that you spent much of your time driving on the "wrong" side of the road.

That was the same look that I had driving on the wrong side of the road in Barbados

**zakdl** · May-11-2007, 10:48am

I'm a graphic designer/art director by trade and much of my job and side projects involve photography - specifically product photography. There have been some good comments and looks like some of you are discovering that lighting is the key. Getting a good product shot involves many things, but the number one issue (in all photography) will be your lighting/lighting setup. There are times when the type of camera you have may limit you - but 98% of the time you can work around any type of camera to get a good personal photo. Likewise you don't need a bunch of fancy lighting equipment. In most instances photographers look to mimic natural light as the goal when artificially lighting things.

Think about your background - eliminate distracting objects in the frame and find what will contast, compliment or focus viewers eyes on the instrument. Depending on the mood or intent of your photo your best bet is to, as was suggested, use a window with nice diffused (use a white curtain or bed sheet)early morning or late day light (color temperature of the light is warmer during those times). Move the instrument around, tilting or rotating it in relation to the the camera lens. How do the reflections change? What features are emphasized or de-emphasized by doing this? Is it getting lost or blending too much into your background?

Some reflection is a good thing to show the instrument's finish, but most importantly to give it volume or dimension. The more diffused the light, the larger and softer the reflections will be. If you run across distracting reflections, try cutting out a piece of cardboard and holding it out of frame, blocking the light to that area while shooting.

You will need a tripod or solid surface to shoot from with the camera. If your camera has an "A" or aperature priority setting, put it on that and try shooting it at f8. If you want to add emphasis on one area of the mandolin and have areas that are closer or farther from your camera blur, try the lowest f stop you have (example: f2, f3.5). Use the lowest ISO setting you have and set your white balance (if digital) to the "sun" or outdoor setting. Make sure to take your shots in "Timer" mode so that there are no movements from you pushing the shutter button which would blur your images.

With digital, check the screen for results and zoom in to see if you're getting a good focus. Sometimes you have to choose a contrasty part of the mandolin to help the autofocus. If all else fails, manually focus. If it's too dark or too light, determine whether you need to change the light or bracket your photos (bracket if you are using film). Many cameras have an +/-EV setting which is a quick and easy way to "lighten" or "darken" the exposure without changing your shutter speed or f stop.

Many of these lighting tips are the same with artificial (light bulb)light. You will need to diffuse it and change your white balance to the "indoor" setting. If you are comfortable with flash systems, you can experiment with that as well. Bouncing from white ceilings or walls, as suggested, or shooting through softboxes or white umbrellas can give you wonderfully diffuse light - but as with other aspects of flash photography can be difficult to control and master. Always use the simplest lighting approach that will accomplish your goals.

**K3NTUCKI8oy** · May-12-2007, 10:11am

Originally Posted by (danb @ April 30 2007, 17:02)

I was messing around with that black background photo, and noticed suddenly for the first time just how different the F-style peghead from the early years was vs the Loar years.

Anyway, here's an interesting way to show it.. these were photographs.. all but the peghead binding and the nuts removed in photoshop

Was this supposed to be filled?

**grassrootphilosopher** · May-13-2007, 5:38pm

How nice everybody to post your experiences in this thread. I really appreciate the input so much.

I just wanted to come back to the issue of subjectiveness (is that the right word for it?). I have here two pictures of the same instrument, the same day, the same location, the same time... just a slightly different angle of photography. Lo and behold, if I will manage to upload them to the site, they´ll show a difference in the sunburst. Which picture shows the "true" color? Both for sure, but my view is subjective which makes me favor one color scheme before the other.

I am one of the "light fraction" too. But it´s so difficult - I find - to set up things in the right light.

I have read that you could diffuse the light with somewhat shading the flashlight with a handkerchief. Is that so? Has someone got examples?

Zakdl, you made a point there that we allways try to immitate daylight/natural light. What I find difficult is the problem of setting up things correctly so that in the end the outcome of a photosession is satisfying. In my case the major distraction comes from my little boy, which is why I have not been able to take the photos that I wanted to post so far.

By the way, is there anybody out there still that shoots pictures not digitaly but with a mirror reflex camera?

**grassrootphilosopher** · May-13-2007, 5:54pm

and here is picture no.2

**zakdl** · May-14-2007, 11:16am

Depending on reproduction methods, color accuracy can be a real can of worms. If you're shooting with color film, you can have a variety of results from different manufacturers. Some even purposely create color film that will saturate heavily (Velvia). If you are shooting outside, time of day, clouds, shade, objects nearby can all affect color cast. To completely control the color accuracy of the light, color balanced studio strobes would have to be used in a controlled studio setting. Individual camera lenses can have color casts as well. Then variances in film developing and color printing all need to be calibrated correctly. If you are scanning the prints or color film/slides onto a computer - then you really open up some variations. Unless you're using an expensive Drum scanner, prints will not reproduce accurately. Some slide scanners can be pretty solid - but each may have different tolerances. Then you have to deal with monitors. No monitor on earth will show you the exact color of what a print will look like - as they are two separate materials (light creates the color on screen, ink or dye & paper stock on prints). The point I'm trying to make here is you need a very controlled environment to get close to the actual color of the object you are shooting. In lieu of that, it's mostly going to come down to subjective opinion. (Even with controlled environments photographers and editors usually push or pull back certain colors or areas of color for emphasis or emotive reasons).

I'd stay away from flashlights and handkerchiefs, unless you want to experiment with some cool effects on very long exposure shots. It will definitely not get you accurate color or a realistic representation. Using a light tent however would be one way to help control the light outside. I've heard and seen photos that have achieved successful outcomes on flowers by covering their entire body and subject in a white bedsheet outside. In their case it was working like a light tent or large diffuser. Might be trickier with a mandolin unless you were taking macro (close up) shots.

As far as your "mirror reflex camera"...I'm not sure exactly what that is. Most pro level cameras and medium format are referred to as SLR or 'single lens reflex'. Is that what you mean? If that is the case, they are not limited to film - there are a plethora of digital SLR cameras on the market now as well (pro and consumer level).

My advice, Grassroot, would be to try to eliminate as many distractions and variables in light/lens/film you can. Are you happy with the color on your film/slides or prints? I'm not sure what you may be using to scan the image to the computer, but that may be a weak spot in the accuracy area as well. If your not happy once you have it on the computer, I suggest getting a photo editing program like Photoshop elements (fairly inexpensive $150) and try selectively tweeking your colors to get just what you like. Just remember to try to get it as close to perfect in-camera before making adjustments on the computer. (And note that if you then choose to take it from computer to print, that will offer another set of variables in color.)

**danb** · May-14-2007, 11:26am

Originally Posted by (K3NTUCKI8oy @ May 12 2007, 16:11)

Was this supposed to be filled?

Possibly. I noticed that detail too. It looks like it was cut deep then bound shallow, with some black filler put in to clean it up

**Lou Scuderi** · May-28-2007, 8:43pm

Just a small note on taking good pictures, or rather, processing them--if you can find some version of a histogram (the Levels option under image in photoshop), you can "clip" the portions of the image that are too bright or too dark. An added benefit of this is that the remaining parts of the image gain a level of contrast that brings out details previously unseen. To completley explain what's going on would require a REALLY long discussion of image processing, but you've got the basics.

As an example I took the first image in this thread, clipped the highlights, and stretched the rest of the histogram:

On the whole, I think the processed image brings out many of the interesting details of the finish.

**Doug Edwards** · May-29-2007, 10:59pm

This thread has been so helpful. I'm so hit and miss indoors, but have much better luck outdoors. My HiTech 1.3 mp Olympus point and shoot.

http://ntbbluegrass.com/images/P10100152.JPG

**danb** · Jun-01-2007, 2:50pm

Fun with dark backgrounds part 2

**Hans** · Jun-02-2007, 6:25am

Love that scroll ridge!

**JEStanek** · Jun-02-2007, 7:51pm

I love how the prominent scroll ridge on that quotes the lines of a fiddle head.

Gorgeous. Your's are some of my favorites Hans. Even better than the originals.

In another thread you talked about guilty feelings over lenses and cameras. What's your set up?

Jamie

**Hans** · Jun-03-2007, 6:51am

Jamie, I have several cameras and lenses. I've been an Olympus guy since the OM-1 way back when. DSLR wise, I have an E500 (8MP) and an E1 (only 5MP, but a GREAT camera), and am anxiously awaiting the P1 that's supposed to come out this year. I'll lose the E500 at that point. In glass, I have Zuiko ED lenses in 14-54, 50-200 and 35 macro. In 35mm talk those would be 28-108, 100-400, and 70mm.
Recently, wishing to have a camera that I can carry around without looking like a "professional photographer" geek, I found this tiny used Leica D-Lux 3 (10MP) and I really like it. Wish I could afford Leica lenses #(optical image stabilization) for the Olys but the Zuiko lenses are excellent glass also.

**Hans** · Jun-03-2007, 6:53am

The little Leica...

**danb** · Jun-03-2007, 8:06am

Nice camera Hans. I have an EOS20D slr which is 8mp. I'd like to get a 10 or a 12, but at the moment those add a lot of price. The main reason is for large format prints. I can get a 12x18 from my 5mp canon, but up close it's slightly "computery". The 8mp can do 12x18 pretty well (borderline), but I'd like to have some flexibility to print some of the details a bit larger sometimes. It's a fun thing to surround yourself with photos of various instrument details. I have a 18" flowerpot inlay print from JR's Loar over my desk, and a similar big one of the torch & wire peghead to my left!