$3500 tone bars and x bracking

[Romkey]

Greetings. I'm looking for a decent used F in the $3500 range to replace a '51 F12 I gave to my son. That's about what I can spend without my wife, um, noticing. I played a slew of new Gibsons (which would be more money, of course) and the only ones I really liked were the Masters, which are as out of reach as the Gilchrist that I would get if I had an infinite supply of cash.

Hence, I've been considering a couple of F5-Ls in "been played" condition, which is fine with me, because I intend to play it, not collect it.

Two questions:

1. I found one that is X-braced. I didn't know any of the Gibson Fs were X-braced. Is this a good thing? A bad thing? I have the sense that tone bars are "generally" better, though I've played some nice X-braced instruments.

2. Any suggestions on alternate mandos to watch for in that price range? I'm half thinking maybe I should get over my scroll envy and look for a used Collings A (a Breedlove oval is tiding me over for now), but I miss having an F and I miss what I had in the F12 in tone. Of course, maybe I won't get that back in a late '90s F5. The notion of getting one of the "budget" Gibson or Collings Fs doesn't appeal to me. Another possibility would be something like a 1922 Gibson A, though I'm not sure I want to deal with elderly instrument issues. Thoughts?

[fredfrank]

In spite of what you may have heard, there were some x-braced Gibsons that were made in Montana. These were few and far between. In general, the x-braced instruments sound played-in sooner than the tone bar mandos, but many claim that a tone bar mando sounds better when it does mature.

I have a good friend who has an x-braced Gilchrist from the 90's, and it's about as good as I've ever heard. So I wouldn't pass up a mandolin just because of the bracing.

For the budget you are looking at, I think I'd be all over a BRW mandolin. And he'd build it however you want it.

[Jim M.]

Buffalo Brothers still has a couple of custom F5G's with Adirondack spruce listed for $3999. These are new old stock and have been there for awhile -- you might be able to cut a good deal. I've played one F5G with the Adirondack, and it was a fine instrument that definitely capture that Gibson tone. Pictures are here: #
http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/images1....ex.html

[fwoompf]

Can't you get a used Collings for $3500? Or I think there's a used BRW in the classifieds for around there. Worth investigating!

[Rick Schmidlin]

Agreed with trying to get a Collings MF for $3,500.00

[Michael Wolf]

I was on the Frankfurt Music Fair yesterday and met Jiri Lebeda and played several F's. The Premium Model was nice, significantly better than the Standard. But one was newer than the other.
But later I played the new Kentucky KM1000 and was very surprised, if not shocked. I found it equal, maybe a bit better than the best Lebeda. Very responsive and clear tone and lightly built. Even if you don't want to like an instrument from China (like me), you're forced to like this one when you play it. I'm shure I wouild have judged it as one of the best Mandos I've ever played in a blindfolded test.

My impression with bracing patterns is that it's better not to think that much about this as a player. Much things that I've been told about this were hearsay and never experienced by the people themselves. I have two X-braced Flatirons and they are very good. I've recently played a x-braced Flatbush that was very, very good.
A friend of mine has a tone bar Collings F5 that is fantastic. And there are people who love their tone bar Mando until they find out it's x-braced.
I talked to some Archtop Guitar builders yesterday. Many of them build with x-bracing. It seems to me that in the guitar world nobody has a problem with the X versus tone bars question. Only a difference tonal character, but not in quality.

Cheers
Michael

[Ken Berner]

There is a '93 Flatiron F5 Artist in the classifieds this morning. It would be X-braced and well-played-in. I own a '92 of that model, and it is a jewel. You might make an offer on the Flatiron, as they are quality mandolins at far more affordable prices than you would expect. Fred Frank is correct about a few Gibson F5-X mandolins built in Montana (around 1996). I would like to get my hands on one of those!

[fwoompf]

Looks like another thing just came up on the classifieds - a Phoenix Bluegrass. From what I'm told, those are fantastic instruments.

[Romkey]

Thanks for all the input. I've gotten some interesting offers via email from folks who have seen this. I'm mulling a Lebeda premium-grade F-5 pretty seriously. Any thoughts on the Lebeda vs. a Gibson F5-G? I have a Gliga fiddle from Romania, and the workmanship and sound are fantastic. Not sure how that translates to European mandolins, but I've read lots of positive comments. The Cafe should open a Mandlin Preserve in Lawrence with one of every mandolin in production so you can go spend a day playing and comparing. Of course, I suppose not even two F5-Gs are ever really alike, so...

[stevem]

I'm a big fan of Lebedas. Every one I've played (6 or 7) had a fantastic tone at a great price. I recently sold my F9 to upgrade and a Lebeda was my #2 choice. In the end, I decided I liked the idea of a custom build better so I went with Andrew Mowry (mowrystrings.com). If you don't mind a short wait, Andrew builds a killer mando at a very competitive price. But, if you are in a hurry, don't hesitate with the Lebeda. Just make sure you get an approval period to see if the sound speaks to you. Truth be told, a Gibson F5G ain't a bad mando either. Happy hunting!

[Greg H.]

The F5-G that Buffalo Brothers has for $3,999(there's only one there now) is a custom version of the F5-G that was ordered by another music store that then went out of business and had to liquidate stock. So, while you're not getting the warranty you are getting a virtually new mandolin at an excellent price. The actual name for these is F5-FB (flame burst) and they have a red spruce top rather than the standard Sitka and a bound fingerboard. I don't know what Gibson would charge for such customization (the $9200 that Buffalo Bros. is showing as the msrp sounds awfully high) but you're probably saving 2,000-3,000 off the price of a new one (with warranty). Of course I'm quite biased as I have one but I think mine is an excellent mandolin.

The Phoenix Bluegrass would be another good choice. I've only played a couple of them, but they had a lot of projection and very good tone. If you're willing to wait a little while, Elderly has a couple of F5 Stivers on order (or so their web site claims) and that too would be a great choice. At this point though I'd suggest take your time, play as many as you can, and enjoy the hunt.

[Romkey]

Well, dang. If I've had a hard time figuring out what the right answer is, at least I know there are no wrong ones, at least beyond a certain line. After agonizing over F5Gs and Lebedas, I've decided to go with a used Collings MT-2 in like-new condition, with an Adirondack top. My scroll envy remains unastisfied, but I think I've gottent the biggest bang for my buck (it was a good deal) and if there is a Collings that sounds like a dog, I've yet to play it. Muchas gracias and adios, oh helpful thread!

Mike
http://www.myspace.com/michaelromkeysolo
1982 D-35
Gliga violin
Breedlove & now Collings Mt-2 mandolins ('51 F12 emeritius)
Mackie, PreSonus, etc.

[johnM]

I just recieved a Pomeroy built in 03 and used by the builder don paine as his personal instrument. Last night I played a friends Collings F and while the Collings had its own sound to me they all sound alike and great by the way. The Pomeroy was more "alive" if I can say it that way, he builds great instruments worthy of a look.

jm