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Thread: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

  1. #26
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    Yes. He was part of the Lonesome Pine Fiddlers wasn't he? Along with some of the Clines (Is Melvin a cousin) and Jimmy Williams. I forgot about them.

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    Les Woodie, who played fiddle on early Stanley Brothers recordings, still plays occasionally with Tony Ellis, Tom Gray, and Dave Verny.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by (bowfinger @ Jan. 07 2007, 16:47)
    Been thinking more about the state of Bluegrass music. # #Who is left besides Ralph Stanley from the original 40's Bluegrass Music scene?
    The problem, it seems to me, is that one has
    to define what they mean by "First Generation". #
    Is it the people who were playing at the time
    of the Bluegrass Boys with Flatt & Scruggs band? #
    SO does one say anyone playing what Monroe,
    the person who one would have to say defined
    the style or sound of Bluegrass, would have
    considered to be Bluegrass? #If so, then you better
    leave out Ralph because Monroe didn't consider
    his band to be Bluegrass. #Does that surprise you?
    Back then, Bill Monroe considered Ralph to be
    mountain music.

    SO this suggests that there was a whole lot less variety
    trying to get under the tent of Bluegrass at that time.
    Remember that Bill broke with his brother Charlie to
    create his sound Bluegrass. #

    That would leave out everyone who started playing
    professionally after about 1949. #So if we follow this
    logic then do we want to say that people of the second
    generation would be those that followed in the next
    few years. #Then there would be third and then forth
    generation. #

    So we might want to start with a definition of terms.

    Personally, I would look at first generation Bluegrass
    as being Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs and that is
    about it. #Second generation would include Jimmy Martin,
    The Osborne Brothers when they played Bluegrass, #
    Reno & Smiley probably. There were a lot of bands
    by the 50s that we don't remember at this point, but
    there were a lot more. #In the 1950s you got
    Frank Wakefield and Red Allen. #Now again if you
    wanted to keep to Bill's opinion then Bluegrass would
    not include Jim & Jesse. From where we stand today
    one could easily say that Jim & Jesse should be called
    Bluegrass, but not back then. #The specs for Bluegrass
    were tighter back then. #I seem to remember Jesse
    commenting on this in my interview with him, on a part
    I have not published yet, it seems to me. #After the 1970s
    most anything that was not electrified and some that
    was sold as Bluegrass. #Bluegrass was the most popular
    name in music, but the music was not. # Today Bluegrass
    means anything you can get on a stage. #

    Can you tell that some people consider me to be a traditionalist?

    Hey... # You know that Frank Wakefield likes to
    mix all of his food up on his plate before he eats it. It true.
    So you might have a seven course dinner and Frank will
    mix it all up. #Well, a lot of people out there who are
    post second generation do that with Bluegrass music.

    Jim Moss
    FWB

  4. #29
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    Yes, everybody has a different definition of "first generation (and second, third, etc.)" bluegrass. I think of the late 40's work by Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, and the Stanley Brothers as the beginning of the music, but that is not the same thing as the first generation. To me that first generation lasted from 1945, when Lester and Earl joined the Blue Grass Boys, to around 1957, and included, in addition to the ones mentioned above, all those artists whose main influence was Bill and his band: Jimmy Martin, Reno & Smiley, The Osbornes, etc. For most of that time, bluegrass was still solidly within the "country music" camp, and that's where it found its audience. I date the beginning of second generation bluegrass to the late 50's, when the folk music boom expanded the bluegrass audience to northern cities, college campuses, and folk festivals, and new bands like the Country Gentlemen brought a more informal attitude to the genre. Basically, any noticable expansion in the bluegrass audience marks a new generation to me. For instance, the third generation starts in the early 70's, with bands like New Grass Revival and Old & In the Way bringing rock music fans into the fold.

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  6. #30
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    I was thinking, if you were one of the people who
    started playing as a result of hearing Bill on the
    radio, then that would make you a second generation
    player, right?

    I always avoided the topic completely. I like to
    think of Bluegrass in periods like 1950s Bluegrass,
    or 1940s but after Earl enters the BGBs. The 1950s
    is the High Lonesome and the 40s was Lesters smooth
    sound.

    Jim Moss
    FWB

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    Quote Originally Posted by (Jmoss @ Jan. 20 2007, 14:57)
    I was thinking, if you were one of the people who
    started playing as a result of hearing Bill on the
    radio, then that would make you a second generation
    player, right? #

    I always avoided the topic completely. #I like to
    think of Bluegrass in periods like 1950s Bluegrass,
    or 1940s but after Earl enters the BGBs. #The 1950s
    is the High Lonesome and the 40s was Lesters smooth
    sound. #

    Jim Moss
    FWB
    Yeah, that makes sense as well. #There are lots of different ways to look at it, and there is no offical right answer or anything. #I like discussing the topic occasionally, but I try not to get too hung up on stuff like that, since imposing any kind of order or structure on a creative field like music can only get you so far - there are just too many variables and exceptions to make everything work out neatly. #It does help sometimes to think in terms of generations and so forth, however one defines them, just to understand the major trends in the music, and to see who influenced whom, or to try to give a manageable overview of bluegrass history to a new fan, but ultimately any such definitions are pretty artificial. #I'm just glad bluegrass has thrived and grown enough to talk about multiple generations of players. #




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    Is Wade Mainer still with us? Much of his playing, starting in the mid-1930s (e.g., "Riding on That Train 45"), sure anticipates what was to come. Wade certainly deserves credit for opening the door.

    Bob
    Robert H. Sayers

  9. #33

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    Speaking of the Stonemans. Here is Roni Stoneman and her friend and Mastertone B---jo




    "Make a joyful Noise"
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  10. #34

    Default Re: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanreilly View Post
    I consider Bobby Hicks a 'first generation' Blue Grass Boy. His recordings on Monroe's classic songs and tunes clearly put him in that position.
    I don't think anyone would consider Jimmy Martin other than first generation either, even tho he did not play as a BGB until after 1950. R.I.P.
    And I believe Bill and Charlie split up in 1938.
    ...glad you corrected about the Bill/Charlie split-up,...now !...let me correct you !...Jimmy Martin started with Bill in 1949 !

  11. #35

    Default Re: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

    Quote Originally Posted by 45ACP-GDLF5 View Post
    Charlie Louvin still pops up on the Opry every now and again and can still sing pretty darn good for an 80+ year old!
    ....-Charlie...-NOT bluegrass !

  12. #36

    Default Re: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

    Quote Originally Posted by olderthanwillie View Post
    this question makes me think of kenny baker & larry sparks. Do they qualify as 1st generation?
    ....no !

  13. #37
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

    Charlie Louvin passed away 7 years ago.

    I think Jesse McReynolds would qualify. A stretch for Bobby Osborne.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

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  14. #38
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    Default Re: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

    Well the great Kenny Baker passed away in 2011 & I'll always consider him & Bobby Hicks to be the high point of fiddling in the Bluegrass Boys.
    Larry Sparks is a favorite too, but he was born in '47, & although a traditionalist....he's definitely in the next generation.

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  16. #39
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    Default Re: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

    Eleven years later and a thread bump!?
    Mando-tech, I take exception to discounting Kenny Baker as first Generation, granted the commander of the tipped hat, has passed to the larger life, he will always be a pioneer for me! And just because they were Bluegrass Boys does NOT, in and of itself, make one first generation to be sure.
    I do agree that Count Sparkula in not a first generation but, he’s about the earliest “second generation” I can think of. Del is right there too.
    Frank and Red are early 2G for sure, and favorites of mine!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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  18. #40

    Default Re: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

    bobby and sonny played with red allen in the early 50s they definatly are first gen. Curley seckler passed last year he was the last foggy mountain boy. jesse mcrenolds and mac wiseman is still musically active too.

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    Default Re: Who is left of the 1st generation bluegrassers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    Eleven years later and a thread bump!?!
    A rare proud moment in my membership here.

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