Yes. He was part of the Lonesome Pine Fiddlers wasn't he? Along with some of the Clines (Is Melvin a cousin) and Jimmy Williams. I forgot about them.
Yes. He was part of the Lonesome Pine Fiddlers wasn't he? Along with some of the Clines (Is Melvin a cousin) and Jimmy Williams. I forgot about them.
Les Woodie, who played fiddle on early Stanley Brothers recordings, still plays occasionally with Tony Ellis, Tom Gray, and Dave Verny.
The problem, it seems to me, is that one hasOriginally Posted by (bowfinger @ Jan. 07 2007, 16:47)
to define what they mean by "First Generation". #
Is it the people who were playing at the time
of the Bluegrass Boys with Flatt & Scruggs band? #
SO does one say anyone playing what Monroe,
the person who one would have to say defined
the style or sound of Bluegrass, would have
considered to be Bluegrass? #If so, then you better
leave out Ralph because Monroe didn't consider
his band to be Bluegrass. #Does that surprise you?
Back then, Bill Monroe considered Ralph to be
mountain music.
SO this suggests that there was a whole lot less variety
trying to get under the tent of Bluegrass at that time.
Remember that Bill broke with his brother Charlie to
create his sound Bluegrass. #
That would leave out everyone who started playing
professionally after about 1949. #So if we follow this
logic then do we want to say that people of the second
generation would be those that followed in the next
few years. #Then there would be third and then forth
generation. #
So we might want to start with a definition of terms.
Personally, I would look at first generation Bluegrass
as being Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs and that is
about it. #Second generation would include Jimmy Martin,
The Osborne Brothers when they played Bluegrass, #
Reno & Smiley probably. There were a lot of bands
by the 50s that we don't remember at this point, but
there were a lot more. #In the 1950s you got
Frank Wakefield and Red Allen. #Now again if you
wanted to keep to Bill's opinion then Bluegrass would
not include Jim & Jesse. From where we stand today
one could easily say that Jim & Jesse should be called
Bluegrass, but not back then. #The specs for Bluegrass
were tighter back then. #I seem to remember Jesse
commenting on this in my interview with him, on a part
I have not published yet, it seems to me. #After the 1970s
most anything that was not electrified and some that
was sold as Bluegrass. #Bluegrass was the most popular
name in music, but the music was not. # Today Bluegrass
means anything you can get on a stage. #
Can you tell that some people consider me to be a traditionalist?
Hey... # You know that Frank Wakefield likes to
mix all of his food up on his plate before he eats it. It true.
So you might have a seven course dinner and Frank will
mix it all up. #Well, a lot of people out there who are
post second generation do that with Bluegrass music.
Jim Moss
FWB
Visit: http://www.candlewater.com/
Yes, everybody has a different definition of "first generation (and second, third, etc.)" bluegrass. I think of the late 40's work by Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, and the Stanley Brothers as the beginning of the music, but that is not the same thing as the first generation. To me that first generation lasted from 1945, when Lester and Earl joined the Blue Grass Boys, to around 1957, and included, in addition to the ones mentioned above, all those artists whose main influence was Bill and his band: Jimmy Martin, Reno & Smiley, The Osbornes, etc. For most of that time, bluegrass was still solidly within the "country music" camp, and that's where it found its audience. I date the beginning of second generation bluegrass to the late 50's, when the folk music boom expanded the bluegrass audience to northern cities, college campuses, and folk festivals, and new bands like the Country Gentlemen brought a more informal attitude to the genre. Basically, any noticable expansion in the bluegrass audience marks a new generation to me. For instance, the third generation starts in the early 70's, with bands like New Grass Revival and Old & In the Way bringing rock music fans into the fold.
I was thinking, if you were one of the people who
started playing as a result of hearing Bill on the
radio, then that would make you a second generation
player, right?
I always avoided the topic completely. I like to
think of Bluegrass in periods like 1950s Bluegrass,
or 1940s but after Earl enters the BGBs. The 1950s
is the High Lonesome and the 40s was Lesters smooth
sound.
Jim Moss
FWB
Visit: http://www.candlewater.com/
Yeah, that makes sense as well. #There are lots of different ways to look at it, and there is no offical right answer or anything. #I like discussing the topic occasionally, but I try not to get too hung up on stuff like that, since imposing any kind of order or structure on a creative field like music can only get you so far - there are just too many variables and exceptions to make everything work out neatly. #It does help sometimes to think in terms of generations and so forth, however one defines them, just to understand the major trends in the music, and to see who influenced whom, or to try to give a manageable overview of bluegrass history to a new fan, but ultimately any such definitions are pretty artificial. #I'm just glad bluegrass has thrived and grown enough to talk about multiple generations of players. #Originally Posted by (Jmoss @ Jan. 20 2007, 14:57)
Is Wade Mainer still with us? Much of his playing, starting in the mid-1930s (e.g., "Riding on That Train 45"), sure anticipates what was to come. Wade certainly deserves credit for opening the door.
Bob
Robert H. Sayers
Speaking of the Stonemans. Here is Roni Stoneman and her friend and Mastertone B---jo
"Make a joyful Noise"
Charlie Louvin passed away 7 years ago.
I think Jesse McReynolds would qualify. A stretch for Bobby Osborne.
Not all the clams are at the beach
Arrow Manouche
Arrow Jazzbo
Arrow G
Clark 2 point
Gibson F5L
Gibson A-4
Ratliff CountryBoy A
Well the great Kenny Baker passed away in 2011 & I'll always consider him & Bobby Hicks to be the high point of fiddling in the Bluegrass Boys.
Larry Sparks is a favorite too, but he was born in '47, & although a traditionalist....he's definitely in the next generation.
Eleven years later and a thread bump!?
Mando-tech, I take exception to discounting Kenny Baker as first Generation, granted the commander of the tipped hat, has passed to the larger life, he will always be a pioneer for me! And just because they were Bluegrass Boys does NOT, in and of itself, make one first generation to be sure.
I do agree that Count Sparkula in not a first generation but, he’s about the earliest “second generation” I can think of. Del is right there too.
Frank and Red are early 2G for sure, and favorites of mine!
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
bobby and sonny played with red allen in the early 50s they definatly are first gen. Curley seckler passed last year he was the last foggy mountain boy. jesse mcrenolds and mac wiseman is still musically active too.
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