Siminoff plans

[Cragger]

I have heard from some people that the Siminoff plans in The Ultimate Bulegrass Mandolin Construction Manual have some errors in them. However, the people that have told me said they don't know what they are, but they had been told by others that have used them. Can anyone let me know what the errors are or if there are any?

[evanreilly]

Consensus opinion is that more current renderings (Davis) are a lot more accurate.
There is also a set of blueprints from someone in Europe that are supposedly the most accurate yet. I do not recall the person's name, and do not believe there is a U.S. distributor yet.

[Rroyd]

The plans Evan speaks of are available from Elderly, and were developed by a gentleman who posts as Hogo here at the cafe. There have been several threads about them that should be easy to find.

[Stephanie Reiser]

I dont know about Roger's new book, but I've heard it said that building an F-5 from his old book would result in an instrument that won't fit a standard F-5 case. No personal experience, though.

[mandomaker]

Roger's old book differs from HoGo's excellent plans. His new book is a decided improvement to me. Would strongly recommend you study both. Ted Davis plans had a flaw which has been corrected, from what I read here in the forum. Good luck!

[Chris Baird]

Siminoff's newer plans are very accurate and comprehensive. His older plans are not worth using given the contemporary alternatives.

[Antlurz]

I think as far as the "accuracy" standpoint, these various plans are taken from different Loar instruments. No two mandolins are likely going to be exactly alike, and that would include the Loar versions as well. Therefore, there will be a difference in the plans as well. Accurate, but different.

I only have Siminoff's newer plans, but I've found no problems with them. Now when it comes to the assembly process, some disagree with Siminoff's process order, but that has nothing to do with the plans themselves, only the "how to" part. Since very few builders use exactly the same assembly/construction order anyhow, instead, they do it in the order they are comfortable with, so it makes no real difference .

Ron

[Yonkle]

Here's my #5 F5 (Siminoff plans) next to a Loar. We studied the two and things were extreamly close if not right on. The neck on the Loar was a bit more of a "V" but slight. #(I agree with antlurz's statements) #JD
OH, as far as sound ... Well the one on the right sounded better. (Right hand or right side of pic) Hummm,

[Michael Lewis]

Roger Siminoff has given the mandolin world an enormous boost with his books, and now his new plan. He has provided fodder for many of us to chew on for many years. The separate plan, not the one in the book, is the best and most accurate. This plan and the one Adrian Minarovic drew are the most complete and accurate available that I know of.

The accuracy being discussed is referring to a comparison with the original Loar signed F5s from the 20s. Aside from those minor details Roger's plans that come in his books are just fine as long as you don't have to put your mandolin in a very closely fitted case that was designed for a Gibson.

As to construction methods, Roger offered more than one way to approach several jobs. The problem is that some of those jobs are difficult, especially the first few times you try, so there is no wonder some folks complain that the instructions are lacking. He is not showing the only way to do the job, he is showing A way to do it. If you find a better way to get through the construction then congratulations, and maybe you could pass it along to others here on the Cafe.

[Gail Hester]

QUOTE: Roger Siminoff has given the mandolin world an enormous boost with his books, and now his new plan.

I totally agree and what a wonderful gentleman. I might just add that his F4 and H5 pro-plans are also excellent.

[Cragger]

Thanks for all of the replies. I was just wanting to make sure that if I used the drawings in the back of the books for my templates and measuremsents, everything would go together. I know that there are numerous ways to build an instrument. I was more concerned that my rim set would not match up with my soundboard or that my neck would end up being too long or something like that.

[mandolynn4u]

I personnaly made some of my first mandolins from Roger Siminoff`s FIRST book. The biggest error was the neck side view. I followed the drawing exactly and completed a mandolin that ended up with a neck that was 3/16 too thick.
I was not happy about this. So for the first time builders make some kind of cardboard trial run . or a dummy mandolin out of bass wood or some way to know that the outcome will be right . Some of the people around me wanted my early mandolins for wall clocks . We don`t need friends like that.
Dale Danowski
19 mandolins later

[Gibson A5]

I liked Roger Siminoff`s two mando books. I had the first one for years reading it wondering if I could build a mando. I was getting ready to try it when his second book came out, so I got it and got going. I never built using the first book. The mandolin turned out great. So have others using his plans, even though I have other plans. My mandos now are from the best of several plans I have. One thing I noticed on my second build was that the tone bars are shown in different locations on two of the plan sheets in Roger Siminoff`s second book. I used the first location and it works fine, so I never tried the other location. If you use his great book, go to his web site and look for corrections for the book that are there. He has them there for you to see. I went there and modified my book to match.
Good Luck,
Bill Pruitt

[Jim Hilburn]

Rogers first book was a guide for a home hobbiest who wanted to tackle something more than a birdhouse, not make a Loar replica.
I started with that book and the resulting instruments make nice wall decoration partially because I didn't know anything about woodworking yet BUT it got me started. Remember, there was very little else to go on in the mid '70's.

[thistle3585]

A friend of mine was hired to write a CNC program based on Roger's drawings. He complained quite a bit about the dimensions not matching up drawing to drawing. Specifically on the cross sections in and around the neck joint and scroll. He also had one of Roger's pre-carved tops to compare dimensionally. Then his customer brought him the new plans, and he said that it was night and day, and the problems he encountered earlier had been resolved.

I find it interesting that most builders, when interviewed, often cite Roger's book as an early reference in their career. Makes you wonder where we'd be at had he never written the book? I know I wouldn't have considered building one had I not had his book as a reference.

[Hans]

For the most part I'd say that the new plans are very good, I have them all. The only major mistake I have found so far is on the A5 print...the snakehead peghead is off by a country mile. Almost looks like he used the ortho projection by mistake.

[jackofall]

Great thread!

[Yonkle]

I think Micheal Lewis sumed it up well. I have never had a problem with either plan. As far as how I approch certain areas of construction is totally different than how Roger does it. But the plans and measurments are fine.
Keep in mind Roger wrote that first book 30 years ago, I would bet Roger has found better ways to build in the last 30 years and doesn't use some of his own methods. I have the McRostie Video too and I use some of his ideas too, most of his techinques are totally different than Rogers, in most cases I used a little of both unless I see a better way or a better way with what I have to work with.
It upsets me to see people complain about Rogers work. (Not that anyone has on this thread, but I have seen some bad mouthing on others) He had done alot to help the mandolin world, if you disagree with him... thats OK, do it your way.
I have called Roger several times and he is always polite and helpful. I screwed up a bridge once, and ordered another, it arrived saying "merry x-mas early" no charge!
Thats a gentleman!
Roger told me once, that he was going to become a "log on" member on the cafe's builder site. Said he saw a lot of interesting reading and questions and thought about joining in with answering questions. However he ended up reading a bunch of "spam" about himself, he said he knows it's not the cafe or the general concensus of everybody, just a few people who disagree with him, but thought it a bit cold to write bad about his ideas, just because you disagree. He said he decided he didn't need the frusration in his life so he stays off any builder forums. Sad... a wealth of knowledge willing to help and to learn new techinques himself, lost due to a few analictical bullys.

[HoGo]

I don't want to tell anything about how close the plans are to a Loar. I posted MO about that some time ago.
I have the Second Siminoff book and the included plans are free of errors except for the tonebar locations in the two sheets. However it's just 1/16-1/8" difference so it really doesn't matter which position you use.
The result is always in the hands of the builder.

[Dick Hutchings]

I just want to add my vote for Roger. I've used both his books and I've had the pleasure of speaking with him on the phone. He was not just helpful but eager to answer my questions. Roger is indeed a first class guy.

BTW, I use his material as a guide and tend to do many things my own way but I never could have completed one without his books.

[David Newton]

In 1978 at the GAL convention in Winfield Ks, I showed Roger my 3rd mando, a carved top A. It didn't sound very good, but he didn't just hand it back to me, he messed with it for quite some time in order to tell me where he thought I could use some improvement. Great guy. He sticks his neck out pretty far for all of us.

[ellisppi]

All of the new plans that I have are really nice but I want to add that PAGE 2 OF THE GAL PLANS IS THE MOST VALUABLE PAGE OF ANY PLAN ANYWHERE.
I was at GAL in Winfield in 78 TORNADOS!!!

[David Newton]

Hello Tom.
I was with Bill Collings trying to dig a cave at the base of that embankment at the camping ground when the tornado came thru!