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Thread: Bowlbacks of Note

  1. #7101
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Ah, here is an actual photo of the Embergher Cetramadami mandolin on this auction site.

    Yes, I know it is not a bowlback.

    I love this description of the design as cubist, though I am not sure why the description calls this cetramadami a 5bis (except for the neck). I will have to look in Ralf and Barry's book and see what they say.

    Luigi EMBERGHER fut toujours à la recherche d’esthétiques particulières et de sonorités spécifiques. Il propose dans son catalogue de 1925 cette extravagante mandoline cubiste (modèle 5bis). Il est possible que ce modèle n’ait pas trouvé grâce auprès du public, ou bien que la situation politique n’ait pas encouragé Luigi à persévérer et à en fabriquer de nombreux exemplaires. Toujours est-il que cet extraordinaire modèle, en parfait état de jeu, dans sa boîte d’origine, reste une pièce si rare que les auteurs du livre consacré à ce grand luthier n’ont pas réussi à trouver un seul exemplaire pour illustrer leur ouvrage.

    Translation:
    Luigi EMBERGHER was always looking for particular aesthetics and specific sounds. In his catalog of 1925 he proposes this extravagant cubist mandolin (model 5bis). It is possible that this model did not find favor with the public, or that the political situation did not encourage Luigi to persevere and to make many copies. Still, this extraordinary model, in perfect condition, in its original box, remains a rare piece that the authors of the book dedicated to this great luthier failed to find a single copy to illustrate their work.
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  2. #7102
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here is the explanation in the Embergher catalogue from 1925 (from Ralf and Barry's book The Embergher Mandolin.

    Questo strumento è stato construito organicamente con i criteri tecnici del Cav. Luigi Embergher, su disegno prospettico del Prof. Aldebrando Madami. — Differisce dal mandolino soltanto nella forma, ed ha una maggiore dolcezza di suono che lo rende più gradito all'udito.

    Translation:
    This instrument has been organically constructed with the technical criteria of Cav. Luigi Embergher, based on a perspective design by Prof. Aldebrando Madami. - It differs from the mandolin only in the form, and has a greater sweetness of sound that makes it more pleasing to the hearing.
    From Luigi Embergher Wikipedia page:

    1925 Mandolin sold by the Vichy Enchères auction, described as Model 5A "Cubist".[1] This model never became a success and this is the only known example. During the 1930s, Italy's fascists introduced the concept of Degenerate art, a movement that condemned Futurism. The political upheavals were enough that Embergher had to shut down most of his business, including that which made this work of modern art. Photo by Jacques Henri Bayle
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  3. #7103
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    Thanks for that thought, Mick. I'll certainly agree with you about the F-5. A monstrosity.

    And henceforth I'll be looking at the Embergers with new eyes.
    Emberghers are certainly an acquired taste. I never would tell someone that they are the way to go. I know too many players who have given over to other styles.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Dec-31-2018 at 4:16pm.
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  5. #7104
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Was yours maple, too, Jim? Like that gorgeous (unscalloped) Calace that bstanish just posted? What a classic!

    Maple bowls...

    Iirc your Embergher is a rosewood bowl, vero? I love the rosewood LEs.

    Mick
    I wasn't really too fussy about what wood my bowls were, but I have to admit now I think I am a fan of the maple bowls. The Calace has a much nicer range from warm to bright compared to my W.A. Cole.

    I'd love to hear Jim Garber's 1904 Embergher N.3, if is sounds half as good as it looks...

    Perhaps a bit off topic for this thread, but when I was digging around the case for the new bowlback, I found this set of strings and I was wondering if anyone might be able to roughly date the packaging.


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    Bradley

  6. #7105
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    It may not be the wood of the bowl but the difference in construction of your Calace vs. your Cole. Those are pretty recent strings. D’Addario still sells them tho probably packaged differently. If you really want to know how old they are contact D’Addario. They do change their packaging every year or so. Keep the Dogals you have. IMO those are the best strings for your Calace. I don’t like flat wounds on Italian bowlbacks.
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  8. #7106
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    It may not be the wood of the bowl but the difference in construction of your Calace vs. your Cole.
    True enough. Apparently the Cole is built with some unique patented method. Basically thin T shaped strips of wood between each rib to connect them.
    Keep the Dogals you have. IMO those are the best strings for your Calace. I don’t like flat wounds on Italian bowlbacks.
    Definately. I will probably venture out and try a couple others brands including some flatwounds just for the fun of it, but I’m pretty much sold on the Dogals

  9. #7107
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    BTW If you think that the 5bis is a design hash, what about the dreaded Cetramadami?
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    Reminds me of what one of my architect amigos, Juan Rois, from Rosario would occassionally say "Tu diseno me duele mis ojos." loosely translated as "Your design hurts my eyes."

    At least the CetraM is funny. And in the upright position it is easier to use that silly headstock as a beer bottle opener.

    Mick
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  10. #7108
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here's an interesting one on etsy. It looks like a DeMeglio without the sideports but the seller says it is labelled Carl Rickmich. I found a couple of violins by this maker and one guitar around 1900.

    The wild headstock shape is especially of note. It reminds me a bot of a flatworm head.

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  12. #7109
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Jim, it looks as if you posted a link to this same Ruchmich mandolin almost eleven months ago.

    No takers, I guess.

    Mick
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  13. #7110
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    How can I remember what I posted. I have to set up an Excel spreadsheet. Nah no takers at that price.
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    How can I remember what I posted. I have to set up an Excel spreadsheet. Nah no takers at that price.
    "Presentation Grade" mandolin for the King of Platyhelminthia.

    Mick
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  16. #7112
    Registered User PlayerOf8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I found a nice instrument from the hand of John Erickson during his time working for Vega. Rings like a bell!Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #7113
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Nice, PlayerOf8: I think that is a style 1, early 1900s. Fill me in on who John Erickson how you know he worked on it. More photos, please, too. There was a style 2 on eBay recently that looked in great shape and it went for very little money. Pictures below.
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  19. #7114
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    John came from Sweden to Boston around 1908 -9. He worked for Vega while he apprenticed with violin maker Walter Gross . In 1914 he moved to Chicago to take a job at Lewis and Son. In 1925 he established his own shop in Hammond Indiana. I met him in the late '60s. When he passed away, I was able to purchase many items from his shop, including a mandolin mold stamped #1. I purchased my fist bowl back from John in 1970. Same model as I posted earlier. He showed me a marking he used to put on the back of the peg head. Thew new one has the same marking.

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  21. #7115
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here's a link to an auction site with a short blurb about JE and a photo of one of his violins.

    Thanks, Po8....one more tiny bit of information falls into place.

    Mick
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  22. #7116
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    The model #1 had a plain headstock , no inlay around the sound hole, no inlay on the scratch plate and the tailpiece cover was not engraved. All models after that had fancier headstock design, inlaid scratch plated, engraved tuner covers and tailpiece covers. The best models had bound finger boards and fancy inlay markers. I owned a model that had MOP around the edge of the table.
    Somewhere around here I have a 1915 catalog.

  23. #7117
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Vega Model#1Click image for larger version. 

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  24. #7118
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    PO8: what was the mark on the back of the headstock. Do you have a photo? I have a copy of a Vega catalog undated but prob around 1910. I will post some scans.
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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Until Jim can get his catalog photos up, here is a slightlier fancily appointed Vega No. 1 from an undated catalogue.

    Mick
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  26. #7120
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Until Jim can get his catalog photos up, here is a slightlier fancily appointed Vega No. 1 from an undated catalogue.

    Mick
    I think that is from the same era as my catalog pages. I will have to scan. Even the #1 mandolins were nicely ornamented. My Vega 3 is one of my favorite bowlbacks. Whoever got that #2 from ebay recently, assuming it is in good structural shape, got a real bargain.
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  27. #7121
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here are the pages from my copy of Vega catalog from my friend's collection. He says it is undated but he says 1910-1915 so it may be the same one that PO8 has. I have a feeling that specs change for various models over the years. This is why i thought the mandolin that PO8 posted was a style 1.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails VegaNumbered_c1910-cropt.pdf  
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  29. #7122
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here the photos of my trusty Vega style 3. I know they are somewhere in this long thread but I am lazy. I also have two Vega Pettine models from that same era.

    I would love to know what John Erickson's mark looked like. Is it under the gear cover? I am very curious.
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    Last edited by Jim Garber; Jan-20-2019 at 5:34pm.
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  30. #7123
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    That's a beauty, Jim! Nice photos too.

    Seems like a good moment to mention this model 4 that's been for sale for quite a while hereabouts:

    https://www.usedvictoria.com/classif...dolin_32000384

    (Not mine of course.)

  31. #7124
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    That's a beauty, Jim! Nice photos too.

    Seems like a good moment to mention this model 4 that's been for sale for quite a while hereabouts:

    https://www.usedvictoria.com/classif...dolin_32000384

    (Not mine of course.)
    I am not sure why the seller says it is a style 4. At least from my catalog info (above) it looks just like a style three. The style 4 has alternating pearl pieces on the outer border.

    Here are some pictures of that Canadian one.
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  33. #7125
    Registered User PlayerOf8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here is a very nice example of a model #4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p170eg_7BQ

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