Bowlbacks of Note

[Eugene]

I was actually going to pursue this one...and completely forgot to do so. Ah well...

[Eugene]

This certainly is the fanciest Weymann I've seen. Mandoluter, where are you?

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello all,

At least it looks like we have some evidence that Bill played and knew how a bowlback sounded (Plamen will be delighted) !

A Puglisi Reale & Figli has come up for auction. View it at
Ebay USA Web site.


Cheers,

Alex

[Bob A]

coasttocoastbooks has been hoovering mandolins to quite an extent of late. Given his 3400+ ebay transactions, when does he get to play?

[Jim Garber]

Yes, I have also noticed coast2coastbooks. I emailed him/her. I think they are serious booksellers...and mandolin buyers. Maybe they are cornering the bowlback market. Could be the next big thing, eh.

Hold onto your mandolins, folks. Serious investment potential.

Jim

[Hubert Angaiak]

I was going to start another topic, but maybe it belongs here. After looking at the fancy Weymann it made me wonder about how it sounded. Was is the fashion of the era to have something as fancy as that? did the tone matter during that time?

[Martin Jonas]

I have to say that I find such elaborate decoration as on the Weymann rather off-putting. I much prefer the plainer models (and luckily my Ceccherini is). Presumably the decorated ones were substantially more expensive at the time. What is the consensus on sound -- were they generally made with greater care and sounded better than the entry-level ones or is it just looks?

Martin
PS: I have also noticed coast2coastbooks bidding on every bowlback going -- they had a bid for my Ceccherini as well.

[Bob A]

Martin, I've recently acquired an over-the-top decorated Ceccherini. I have to say that it is gorgeous, though not perhaps to everyone's taste (if taste can even be used in this context). It looks like an ornate rococo jewel box.

It plays well: better, perhaps, than one might expect. It is inhibiting to play on, though; one doesn't wish to contribute to the entropy of such a piece. This, in my opinion, is the bigest drawback to this sort of thig. And, of course, the general reluctance to expose it to the rigors of travel and exposure to the masses. I put my kneebreeches on, powder my wig, and confine my playing to the drawing-rooms of the elite. Failing to find that particular venue, it's solo time in the living room for the Ceccerini and me.

My experience is that the midlevel instruments of the Italian makers are the most satisfying overall for real-world use.

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello Hubert and BobA,

Too much decoration inlay and applications on the soundboard will of course be of influence to the sound. Therefore the tops of the ´Soloist models´ by the best mandolin makers are usually plain and not decorated. The best example here is Luigi Embergher.


Best,

Alex

PS. BobA, did you buy your Pecoraro/Embergher blind, or did you see it pictured first?

[vkioulaphides]

[QUOTE]"My experience is that the midlevel instruments of the Italian makers are the most satisfying overall for real-world use."

I can think of no more succinct way of putting this. Yes, indeed. Maybe my bias comes from a rather, ehm... plebeian view of the "real" world— then again, I'm no Roman and attach no negative connotation to something Every(wo)man can have and use to good effect.

I only reserve judgment, strictly on grounds of my own ignorance, on some similar statement regarding mid-level, vintage American instruments. I would suspect (and, by Jove, some day will find out) that such instruments as plain but well-built Vegas are no less suitable for this brave, "real" world than their Italian counterparts.

Alas, however, my "discovering America" will have to wait past this year; things have managed once again to get in the way. But, then again, there is a tangible pleasure in anticipation...

[Bob A]

Alex, it was to have been an Embergher; but there was a mixup between the two British dealers who bought the collection, and the E escaped. They said the Pecoraro was an excellent instrument, and even though it did not have the nifty "scorpion" peghead, it looked pretty nice, so I committed to purchase. I'm not disappointed in anything except in not having the curly bit.

Victor, the finest American bowlback instrument I've ever played is my Vega Pettine Special. Its level of ornament is not super high - decorative fleurs-de-lis in the unbound fretboard; pearl around soundhole and binding; and a nice inlaid lyre in the pickguard. (Vega is to be complemented in keeping the inlaid ornamentation on the bass side of the pickguard: it makes little sense to me to have it abused by fingernails down in the treble).

This Pettine is capable of large excursions of decibel, from pp to ff anyway, without breaking up or sounding stressed. It has far more delicacy and levels of expression than I can coax from it. It is really too much of a good thing for a hack like me,

The Pecoraro is a different bird. It seems sonically neutral. If you want effects, you have to have the technique to bring them out. It too can be a lapcannon; of course I string it with a bit heavier (consort) string set.

Please don't take my word for gospel on any of this - it's just the vague imressions of a mediocre player.

I'd love to have your impressions of my Stahl/Larson bros mando. It'd be too ornate for your tastes, but the sound is something else. Very "American" - brash, loud, in your face. No real subtlety. But charming nevertheless, in its own way.

I sometimes envy Peter his Spartan ethic; but I'd be hard pressed to say "OK, I don't want to keep this one". They're all a gas.

[pklima]

I sometimes envy Peter his Spartan ethic; but I'd be hard pressed to say "OK, I don't want to keep this one". They're all a gas.

I'm from Cracow, not Sparta. There's a local legend that the nation of Scotland was created when the spendthrifts were kicked out of Cracow. Perhaps that explains something.

Actually, I look forward to settling down and being finally able to relax my "no two instruments with the same tuning" rule. I'll probably still end up playing bass 90% of the time (especially in public) but such is a bassist's life. Nobody ever says "leave the bass at home and bring your banjo".

[Jim Garber]

A nice-looking Vega style 2 just came on eBay.

Jim

[Bob A]

Carlo M sent me (and doubtless many of you as well) an email with photos of the instrument he makes. I inquired the price: 3500 euros.

An attractive instrument nonetheless. Anyone ever played one?

[Alex Timmerman]

And another nice light-weight Raffaele Calace from 1914:

Click here to view at eBay Germany´s #Webpage.


Best,

Alex

[Jim Garber]

Here is an interesting bowlback, nice-looking marquetry on the back from Milan, but not a Milanese mandolino.

Strangest thing is that it has ivory frets. Has anyone seen that on a steel string instrument? I can't imagine that they would last all that long. I have seen the ivory frets on some instruments, but those are usually the ones that extend onto the soundboard.

Jim

[vkioulaphides]

Oh, dunno... that marquetry weirds me out...

Also, relating to the Calace Alex refers to: Hmm... it might be the perspective from which the seller shot these pictures but the bowl seems awfully, ehm... bulbous, awfully stout in general proportion to the instrument, almost modern-German-like; perhaps it is also the few —and consequently very wide— staves that exaggerate this impression.

Still, I would prefer stout and plain to checkerboard-ridden. But that, again, is apples and oranges...

[Arto]

Hi Alex,

do you think the German eBay´s Calace has original armrest? Looks strange (and rather ugly) to me.

Just curious (= I´m not going to bid ;-),
Arto

[Bob A]

I'm pretty certain that the armrest is a later addon to the Calace. I think the photo angle makes it out to be bulbulouser than it is. Too bad the seller isn't interested in shipping outside Germany. I'd certainly like a decent teens or twenties Calace. Anyone know of one outside the CM orbit?

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello Arto,

This armrest is indeed to big (plump) for the mandolin and was not placed on it by the luthiers of the Calace firm. In fact this Calace orchestra mandolin model was designed without an armrest.


Best,

Alex

[Eugene]

I'd wager this was not intended as a "player's" instrument for a working-class musician: YIKES!

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello Eugene,


Jipp, it´s better to look at this 1899 Vinaccia at eBay France.


Greetings,

Alex

[pklima]

I'd wager this was not intended as a "player's" instrument for a working-class musician: YIKES!

Yikes, indeed!

[Jim Garber]

Yes, that overly ornate thing -- i guess it is a mandolino of some sort but more likley a wall hanger. I breath easily when I see that Vinaccia.

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

At eBay Webpage England the diffucult to find LP recording of Keith Harris.

Maybe of interest for one here at the board.