Well, whatever it once was (and without a proper shot of the label that's difficult to answer), it now is a dog's breakfast. I've seen the two holes in front of the bridge on Calaces, but not Vinaccia (or their pupils) -- it's very suspicious that they are clearly not level with each other. Not for me, I'm afraid.
Martin
jgarber @ Aug. 01 2005, 08:29
"I am not sure what is going on here."
Quite!
If this was a Vinaccia, they have certainly massively devalued the instrument by this treatment - I can only hope that this is reflected in the auction price, and that they thereby learn not to repeat this.
The cost of restoring this instrument to its original state would probably approach its full potential value - which means that it has no real value as a Vinaccia currently. That is assuming that the major part of the fabric of the instrument is still original (e.g. the soundboard hasn't been replaced).
Jon
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/mandolino-mandolin-1898-vinaccia_W0QQitemZ7339721644QQcategoryZ10179QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ
1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Here's</a> another possible Vinaccia for those interested. Looks like the top of the peghead has lost a bit.
The Loveri is of some interest if the price stays low. Carlo M has one on his site that he says is "cheap", but despite my series of emails he has never quoted a price. He also sent an email regarding a 1954 Embergher 5bis the other day, and has not responded with a price (not that it matters - it's out of the question for me at this time anyway. But all mando-masochists tease their disease with quotes like these).
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BEAUTIFUL-ANTIQUE-MANDOLIN-NAPLES-ITALY-1895_W0QQitemZ7341520738QQcategoryZ10179QQrdZ1QQcm
dZViewItem" target="_blank">Angara & d'Isanto</a> on Ebay UK. Rather spectacularly misspelled transcription of the label, so maybe not all the usual suspects will spot this one.
Another transcriptions error on this Giovanni de Meglio, the seller of which latched onto the "Figlio" part of the name. I think this is the first actual de Meglio I've seen without any inlay on the scratchplate.
This Stridente looks quite nice.
Martin
I don't know about the "usual suspects" but this current high bidder seems to be bidding on just about any and all Italian mandolins lately. He/she seems to get many of them as well. Never underestimate...
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
A too-ornate historic <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-MANDOLIN-BY-JOSEPH-BOHMANN-MADE-IN-1901-RARE_W0QQitemZ7340551443QQcategoryZ359QQss
PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Joseph Bohmann</a>. It says on the pickguard that is was made for the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo NY.
For the collector, I would imagine. The fretboard is blinding.
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
A rather questionable <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/eine-alte-Mandoline-mit-Zettel_W0QQitemZ3778073243QQcategoryZ10179QQssPage NameZWD1VQQrdZ1Q
QcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Embergher-labelled mandolin</a>. I highly doubt it but curious what others think.
JimOriginally Posted by
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
You can definitely play the Bohmann in the dark. The armrest looks like an addon, perhaps - huge and clunky.
So far as the "Embergher" is concerned, I'm sure the tuners are as old as the instrument, which is about the only thing I believe. At least the seller is offering a strong hint that it is not what it is labelled to be. I suspect it is German in origin.
i don't feel up to scanning the previous 54 pages devoted to this subject so if i'm repeating an item, please excuse me.
much against the advise of those who know better, i just emptied my paypal account and bought one of those cheapy bowl backs. i have no idea what i'll be receiving but in the spirit of stringy fellowship and to boldly blow (meager savings) where no one else is silly enough to, i'll be posting photos and what i hope will be surprised and delighted commentary when it arrives.
one small step ... - bill
Bill:
Which mandolin did you buy? I have a feeling... Musikalia?
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
These Vinaccias seem to be coming out in droves. Here is yet another one. Judging the posted emails from interested bidders, I would say that there are a few serious ones, including our friend Bazzicotto. Anyone know this person. He/she is seriously interested in all Italian mandolins.
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
jim - the only identification i have - and i'm not sure if it's a name or simply a statement - is "luteria italiano." i'll be pouring over it when it arrives. plenty of time yet for ... dark foreboding and pessimism.
bazzicotto drove me to buy this, by the way. i'd been looking at various budget bowl backs and selected one in the u.k.. he had a low bid in for it and when i placed a higher bid, he made a counter bid immediately. i tried twice more but each time he bounced back in a flash with a counter bid. i realized he/she must have one of those automatic bidding programs. they're insidious, those. if you get caught up in the bidding you can go way over your limit in a matter of seconds.
ciao - bill
Hi Bill:
Here's how eBay bidding works. You bid your highest. If someone bids against you at the next highest increment, eBay will automatically raise your bid until the other person outbids you. What I have seen of this person is that he/she bids a certain amount immediately and seems to stop at that amount which must be what hi/her budget allows. There does seem to be a limit.
Most folks with sniping software set it up in advance and then th4e software will bid at the very last moment. If the bid is high enough, then the high bidder gets outbid with no recourse to bid again.
Sometimes, it makes more sense just to bid your best bid at the beginning and then walk away. Of course, you also can lose by one small increment. "Gee, I could have won that for another $5..." Ah, the joys of eBay!
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
From where I sit, the only successful strategy is to play the last minute snipe game. This keeps the other party from remorsefully increasing his bid and overtopping you. If they've already overbid you you have no recourse, but to think that you could have won by bidding five dollars higher is an illusion. You'll never know the extent of your adversaries' folly unless you put in a ridiculously high bid, but then of course you're stuck with your million-dollar mandolin.
There's a lot to be said for the entertainment value of the old-fashioned auction, where you get a bit more psychology involved; of course, there too emotion can lead you to perdition, but you have a real-time moderator instead of a stopwatch, and you may even see your adversary.
It's rather colder bidding against the clock, especially with newbies upping their bids a dollar at a time. They're most often the ones who'll mess up your carefully thought-out bid by pecking away at it, panicking and driving the price to ridiculous levels to not let the object of their desire get away. Don't ask me how I know this.
So Bill, post a link to your new toy, or let us know the ebay item number, and we'll congratulate and commiserate together.
this was strange. i'd confirm my bid, receive notice that i was the highest bidder and almost immediately be out bid again - all in a matter of seconds. i re-entered with a higher bid because i thought the computer hadn't read his (bazzicotto) maxim offer properly. i increased my bid by a couple of pounds (£), was immediately out bid, repeated the process and was immediately outbid again. my "bargain" mandolin was turning into something else.
i was so frustrated by this - plus the fact that a lot of these old bowl backs look to be in terrible shape ... it took me forever to finally decide on this one - that i went to an on-line music store here in italy and bought a new one, direct - sensa ebay.
nice, optimistic, pro-noid thoughts, please while i wait for delivery ...
ciao - bill
It has been a while since I was at one of those. Many folks like to stay in the back to do their bidding and see the competition, however I got one my prize mandolins, my Bacon Artist, at an auction by sitting right up front with my paddle hand straight up in the air. Another bidder told me after that I looked pretty determined (I was).
As for eBay, you can see exactly what happened in a particular auction by clicking the bid history link. It will tell you when a person placed which bid.
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Good luck with your new mandolin Bill, I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures of it.
I just stumbled upon a site that I had not come across before. While there are no bowlbacks listed for sale, there are plenty of interest: De Musica - Fondazione Antonio Monzino. There are some oddities among their number - including a mandolin with eight strings in four courses with pegs. It has the body, and bridge, of a Lombard instrument - there is no mention of tuning or stringing.
Jon
Thanks Jim - you've taught me something new about eBay this morning.
-Allen.
(Member of the Bowl-elect as soon as the "Fine Antique Italian Lapini" arrives...)
Dayton Mandolin Orchestra: http://DaytonMandolin.net/
Midwest Mandolin Quartet: http://DaytonMandolin.net/MMQ/
Ah, Allen, congratulations on that one. I was watching that auction. It looks like a nice one in good shape. I am looking fwd to hearing your impressions of it when it arrives.(Member of the Bowl-elect as soon as the "Fine Antique Italian Lapini" arrives...
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Congrats, Allen. #It does look nice. #I'm keen to see it in person. #It strikes me as similar to some Stridentes of that era.
I'm keen to see images of yours too, Bill. #Can you post reference to the auction?
I am more convinced than ever that Bohmann was a real...uhmmm...eccentric.
Wow, Jon. #I wasn't aware of a Monzino foundation. #Of course, that shop was pretty well know for gut-strung mandolins (Brescian and Lombard types) in the late 1800s. #I've never seen such a thing as that 8-string beast. #I think I have a copy of a Monzino mandolin method somewhere. #(Speaking of which, I still owe you a heap of xeroxes, and that is still occupying my thoughts. #One day I'll get those posted to you.)
Jon:
Thanks for the link to the Monzino site. It looks like that 8 string thing was called a Mandolino Arpa and built by Galimberi. It is strange that there are examples left out of the Analytical Index. There does seem to be much information lacking in general, like dates of manufacture etc. Still an interesting site.
Has anyone been there to visit? Looks like it is in Milano.
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
nice looking collection but i haven't been - milano is a long way away.
never noticed it before but a row of violins doesn't provide much in the way of variation but a row of mandolins is made up of distinct individuals.
hmmmmm - bill
billkilpatrick @Aug. 09 2005, 12:18:
"never noticed it before but a row of violins doesn't provide much in the way of variation but a row of mandolins is made up of distinct individuals"
Nearly everyone says that!
You'll have to take my word for it - Violins are all individuals, with very different characters - every single one!
Visually the differences between Violins are much more subtle than than those between Mandolins though. That's partially due to the way they developed, and partially due to the conservatism (with a small c) of the string orchestral world.
Those small subtle differences can make a big difference to the sound of the instruments.
Eugene - I'll be very interested to see it, but don't rush to get anything in the post. My time is filled with a heap of projects at the moment, so there's no big rush.
I had heard of the collection at the Castello Sforzesco di Milano before, but was completely unaware of the Monzino connection, or the website. I'm hoping to visit Italy again in the next year or two, so I'll have to make a visit to Milan a priority.
Jon
Hmmmm... checking thru that index, I don;t think that the numbers correspond to the photos, so I may be wrong about that 8 string mandolino. For instance #51 says "Strumento esotico" but it looks like a std bowlback.
Strange site, obviously needs updating and more info. The last posting of events was in 2003.
Even weirder, take a look at this. At first I thought it was three instruments, but I not entirely sure that it isn't one conglomeration.
Jim
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks