Bowlbacks of Note

**Eugene** · Dec-02-2004, 4:16pm

Originally Posted by (bratsche @ Dec. 02 2004, 15:46)

What are those interesting, um, things at the tops of those headstocks called? #They must have a name, but I have never seen or heard it.

Finial. I tend to refer to the whole of the thing as a sickle-shaped pegbox with a partial scroll terminating in a square finial. Stradivari and Dan Larson's earlier models featured a shield-shaped finial:

**Jim Garber** · Dec-02-2004, 4:30pm

Thanks, Eugene, for the correct term. I will never remember it, but that is why I am glad that you are around.

Jim

**Eugene** · Dec-02-2004, 5:06pm

Anytime.

**berkeleymando** · Dec-02-2004, 7:58pm

Hi folks, I just noticed that Brian Dean (Montreal luthier) just posted some interesting pictures of a wild looking bowlback he made on his web site:

http://www.bfolk.com/jen20gallery/FrameSet.htm

I'd be curious to hear thoughts that people have about this design.

**Jim Garber** · Dec-02-2004, 10:10pm

Brian actually consulted with us at this thread

Jim

**Bob A** · Dec-02-2004, 11:08pm

Interesting and presumably well-made instrument; needs a bridge, but looks like it might be worth the effort. Here it is; not familiar with the maker, Montaldi.

And here's a nice Maurer - a lower-end model, but pretty birdseye maple.

**Jim Garber** · Dec-03-2004, 7:35am

Originally Posted by (Bob A @ Dec. 02 2004, 23:08)

Interesting and presumably well-made instrument; needs a bridge, but looks like it might be worth the effort. Here it is; not familiar with the maker, Montaldi.

Here is another Giovanni Montaldi mandolin that appeared on eBay in janurary of this year. This one is also rosewood bowled but not fluted with a different headstock. The sellker stated that it was from the 1920s and that it has a Alban Voight label.

Marco is the high bidder of the one currently on eBay. I think the fluted back will attract interest. I would say £500-600 for the final bid.

I just noticed that the dollar to GBP ration is close to 2:1 now. Makes it easier to figure out prices for me.

Jim

**Eugene** · Dec-03-2004, 7:46am

Originally Posted by (berkeleymando @ Dec. 02 2004, 19:58)

Hi folks, I just noticed that Brian Dean (Montreal luthier) just posted some interesting pictures of a wild looking bowlback he made on his web site:

http://www.bfolk.com/jen20gallery/FrameSet.htm

I'd be curious to hear thoughts that people have about this design.

Looks like an oud.

**Jim Garber** · Dec-03-2004, 7:57am

About Brian's bowlback (from his homepage):

Originally Posted by

Lords, and Ladies, ahem. Not a reproduction, straight from the imagination, a cross between a lute, a mandolin, and a Court Jester's trousers. A beautiful tone, harp-like, voluminous, and sweet, you can hear her played at the Renaissance Fair in California (that's in the New World, mind you), should you fortuitously stumble upon the fair Jennifer a-strumming.

He was commisioned to make something look Renaissance-like, not to make an authentic historical repro. I think visually he achieved that and it will work well for thos attending those faires. I emailed him on how it sounds etc. Perhaps he will chime in here.

I like the way it looks (with the exception of what looks like a cartoon bunny on one of the soundholes. I am not sure if I would want one of these, prob lean more to the classic bowlbacks of the golden era.

BTW it must be real fun to tune with metal strings and violin pegs. Hmmm... he is partway to making a mandolino...

Jim

**Jim Garber** · Dec-03-2004, 8:00am

This mandola seems to be a German-made Embergher style. It is hard to tell if it is a tenor mandola or for octave tuning. it is also hard to see if the fretboard is radiussed or not. I do like its simplicity. I am not in the market tho.

"Goldklang" is stamped on the soundboard. Looks like one that Ian may know about?

Jim

**Martin Jonas** · Dec-03-2004, 9:30am

The German text says "much much bigger than a mandolin, as big as a concert guitar". I'd say that points to something larger than a mandola, maybe a mandocello. The seller also says that he inherited it from his father, who in turn inherited it from his great-grandfather (!). Sounds a bit too many generations to me to be consistent with the looks of the instrument, which points towards 1910s or 1920s, I'd say. Mind you, the seller's father also supposedly said it's to be tuned CDAG, which seems rather muddled.

"Goldklang" means "golden tone", and is one of those phrases that appear pretty widely on German instruments ("Edelklang" and "Wohlklang" being others). I'm not so sure that they are actually brand names; they're certainly not indications of superior quality. Rather the opposite, in fact. Still, it's a nice maple bowl.

Martin

**vkioulaphides** · Dec-03-2004, 10:18am

I would second Martin's intelligent guess of mandocello.

As for the lutoid... the instrument that comes to mind is the folk-lute we call "Polítiko" in Greece; no, NOT as in politics but as in "Constantinopolitan". It is the one developed in pre-revolutionary Constantinople, present-day Istanbul, as a crossbreed between the oud and the numerous bass folk-lutes that evolved in the Greek islands that were under Venetian rule— a most interesting cross-pollenization! The Turks call it "lavta"; such instruments, still made in Istanbul today, do come up on eBay from time to time.

The "laoúto polítiko" is tuned to (A)A-dd-aa-d'd' (The parenthesis indicates that it is, more often than not, a 7-string instrument. Its "harmonic bias" is clearly D-keyed, with the upper three courses tuned to the familiar bozuk düzeni, the Venetian quintaquarta DAD, with an additional, dominant drone in the bottom, single- or double-strung.

Lovely instrument, sans fauna. I wish I could tell the pudding's flavor from afar.

**labraid** · Dec-03-2004, 10:33am

Howdy Jim, and all. The offer to chime in, absolutely I'll take it. For the visual appearance, you're right it was to go for something one might imagine when one thinks of the Renaissance, and for that I am very happy with the finished product. The sound, the tone, is intriguing, it's quite like a cross between an archtop mandolin, presumably because of the non-flat back, and one of my flat-top mandolins.The top is braced with an induced arch mostly in my usual fashion with a few slight modifications which I came about through a bit of research and trial. It plays and sounds equally well quietly and loudly, and volume is not lacking in any sense. The bass, midtones, and trebles are well balanced and ring clear.. I can say without a doubt that it is one of the finest sounding instruments I have made to date, though does not sound much at all, in my view, like a "traditional" bowlback. Here's a quick quip from the mando herself (recorded on the free microphone that comes with the computer, so you can trust it's better in real life, best if you have good speakers to listen on)[edit, fixed link]: http://www.bfolk.com/cafe/farewellbowlback.mp3
And as for the rabbit, I was a bit apprehensive about the idea at first, but after we shrunk it down to this size (it was going to be much bigger at first) it was less intrusive on the whole.. Her boyfriend drew that for her, she loves it and absolutely wanted it here on the mandolin. I'm happy since she's happy, of course.
I have to tune a few things before I send her off, the bridge needs a trimming down to get the action right, and a bit of nut work as well, and then it will play as easily and fast as any other finely tuned machine...
As for tuning those strings (light gauge afterall, Jim), well it wasn't easy by any means until I made a wood wrench to give me some leverage on those pegs. Now it's pretty simple and quick to do. Stays in tune very nicely also.

That's all for now, you guys take care.

Brian

**Martin Jonas** · Dec-03-2004, 10:46am

What a nice tone, very intriguing! You're right, it's not much like a bowlback, more like an oval-hole archtop with an additional resonator-like quality. Seems to have great sustain, and more low range than most bowlbacks. I'd love to give this one a go!

Martin

**vkioulaphides** · Dec-03-2004, 11:28am

Hmm... can't get those links to work; "URL not found on this server"... obviously, Martin did manage to listen to the samples. Oh, well...

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Vega "Lansing" sold for $436, certainly more than I would have paid for it. Then again, there IS that trend we have discussed on this thread.

While I would certainly consider a life surrounded by mandolins, in various states of (dis)repair pleasant, I must admit I don't see the business in it. Messrs Mazzaccara, Onorati, et alii, will have to excuse me for failing to comprehend their raison d'etre.

**Martin Jonas** · Dec-03-2004, 12:00pm

Brian got his link a bit muddled up and as a result, it won't work by just clicking on it. Try this link instead.

Martin

**Jim Garber** · Dec-03-2004, 12:08pm

Originally Posted by (vkioulaphides @ Dec. 03 2004, 11:28)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Vega "Lansing" sold for $436, certainly more than I would have paid for it.

There is a Lansing at Lark Street Music for $995 that has been there for quite some time. I don't recall seeing it while I was there last year. I have to make another trip.

Jim

**labraid** · Dec-03-2004, 2:22pm

Here's a better demonstration of the sound, some chords and a bit of (imperfect) improv: http://www.bfolk.com/jen20gallery/jen20demo.mp3

**Alex Timmerman** · Dec-03-2004, 6:35pm

Hello Bratche,

This particular head is called a ´square finial´ and yes you are right; a little ornament is nice at that place.
In fact often early Mandolinos do carry artistic expressions like a carved face or a flower in the ivory (or bone) there.

Greetings,

Alex

**Plamen Ivanov** · Dec-05-2004, 5:13pm

Two more Puglisi mandolins with the common butterfly pattern. Here and here.

Good luck!

**onthefiddle** · Dec-09-2004, 2:01pm

Was anyone else watching the end of the Montaldi auction? I can't really say that this one slipped through my fingers - more leaped!
Jim - you were a little out this time, try trebling your estimate to 1605 Pounds! It suddenly shot up from 310 Pounds in the last 20 seconds of the auction.
I'd imagine there's one happy seller out there!
Jon

**Jim Garber** · Dec-09-2004, 2:11pm

Yikes! I am losing my touch. Perhaps there is something about this maker that we don't know. Any clues? Alex?

I suppose any well-made Italian mandolin with fluting will go for a decent amount, but that seems like closer to a big three price.

Jim

**Bob A** · Dec-09-2004, 6:22pm

Well, it's not a bowlback, but it's still interesting, and lord knows it has enough strings: at Bernunzio's.

**guitharsis** · Dec-09-2004, 6:58pm

Bob -

I'm actually going to Bernunzio's next week to have Julie take a look at my Stridente and give me an appraisal. #I'll be down on East Avenue anyway to attend a meeting of the Italian Women's Civic Club at the Century Club, and figured it would be a good time to do both.

Maybe I'll get a chance to take a look at some of the other mandolins in Bernunzio's inventory. #Mine is the only bowlback I've ever seen so far. #My teacher told me today that it was in better condition and plays louder than any of the bowlbacks he's seen. #We'll see what Julie thinks.

Edit: Stopped by Bernunzio's today because I was out that way. John looked over my mandolin and said he would give me an opinion rather that a written appraisal and that his opinion wouldn't cost me anything. That was so nice of him. He said that he thought the Stridente was well worth the price paid. He also said that the neck was nice and straight (ebony or ebonized?) that the set-up was good and that the mandolin was in very nice condition overall. Good to hear from an expert.

I did get to see and hear him play some of the other bowlback mandolins. He has some very nice ones there. He also played some of the A style vintage Gibson's which sounded very good. He has several of them in stock.

**Jim Garber** · Dec-09-2004, 10:48pm

Bob:
That is some sort of bandurria. After some surfing it could be a variant of a Colombian bandola which has either 12 or 14 strings.

It is very interesting that it has an O. Pagani label and it looks almost American in manufacture. Perhaps a Colombian came into the store on Bleecker (which was a music store and also published thier own sheet music, mostly accordion and mandolin and guitar, as far as I know) and ordered such an instrument. I imagine that Pagani would commission one of the mandolin makers in Greenwich Village to make this instrument.

Jim