Bowlbacks of Note

[Jim Garber]

So, I did not win the article about Winder but only one other bidder did. I contacted a couple of people who may have won it. We shall see.

As far as the Winder that Ian sold... I wonder if it was made in the UK. The hardware including the whole-cast zero fret/nut (last pic on this page) looks very much like DeMeglio and Italian in origin.

[brunello97]

This mandolin is an example of why these old bowlbacks are so interesting and so frustrating. Jim, we ought to plan a trip to Napoli where maybe we can interview some of these people on location about the salad days. (I'm serious...)

I have no argument for or against Winder as maker of this (maybe the article will help, but none of the mandolins in the pictures looked even the slightest bit DeMeglio-ial.) Granted he could have imported parts, tuners, etc. or even 90% complete bowlbacks that he finished. Or he had some made to spec.

It is hard to imagine dozens and dozens of separate shops making nearly identical fair-to-middling mandolins instead of a few bigger places cranking out pieces for relabeling. If they were doing it in Chicago (and Paracho) no reason why it couldn't be done in Italy. Still, you'd think a big shop would leave a trace... (Maybe they did, but they were in Catania )

I could be completely wrong about that but would love to find out.

This Winder has such an eclectic array of features that it is really fascinating.

Mick

[Jim Garber]

Yes, Mick. Let's go, but let's keep our wallets in our shoes. I hear it is a tough town.

[Graham McDonald]

Sadly, I got the impression there was not much interest in mandolins in Naples these days. I suspect people with more fluency in Italian might be able find out more, and maybe dig into the city's archives. Three years ago when I made a flying visit to talk to the Calace folks, they seemed to be pretty much it. There are the two new builders who popped up here a year or two back and Carlo Mazzaccara who re-uses old bodies and restores good quality mandolins but little else I think. One music shop I discovered by accident had a bunch of mandolins hanging on the wall, but more for decoration and ambience rather than any expectation of selling them I thought.

It does seem like a most worthy expedition to plan though. I am sure some parts of the city are dodgy, but where I stayed near the main railway and the couple of kms to the Calace atelier seemed quite pleasant and full of the locals going about their business.

It is the oval soundhole on the Winder which suggests not being Italian. I go with actually being English made.

cheers

graham

[August Watters]

Carlo Mazzaccara builds wonderful mandolins - the old backs are optional. I bought one of his all new-construction mandolins last summer at his Florence workshop (he's since moved to Modena, but maintains the Napoli location). My Mazzaccara mandolin is astonishing. Haven't recorded it yet but will soon - big, full, resonant, loud, and excellent bass response. He's at oldmandolin.com

[Jim Garber]

I also thought Carlo made wholly new instruments as well, tho I also thought he was mostly in Modena. His site says Firenze and Napoli by appointment. August, I would love to see one of his instruments. Hopefully our paths will cross at some time.

[brunello97]

There are the two new builders who popped up here a year or two back...

Graham, I exchanged a few emails with Salvatore and Michele from La Bottega in Napoli a year or so ago and found them to be really nice folk and very engaging. You've prompted me to get back in touch. I am going to come up with some kind of 'email interview' to send them with a range of questions about Neapolitan mandolins. Maybe even try to do it via Skype. That would be fun.

Mick

[August Watters]

Jim, Carlo M had his main shop in Florence the past few years - that's where he was this summer, when I went to see him. Last fall he closed the shop in Florence and opened in Modena. He still retains a small place in Naples, but as you say, at this point is based mainly in Modena. He told me it's a good move in that he will be closer to the regions of north-east and north-central Italy where the orchestras are active, and there's more interest in the advancing concert music tradition. Oh, and there are too many tourists in Florence!

[Rick Schneider]

Mick,

Salvatore and Michele from La Bottega del Mandolin are very nice fellows and will gladly answer any and all questions. They are very gracious. I exchanged emails with them several times over 2 months before I commissioned them to build a Magistrale for me. They are super!!

Rick

[brunello97]

Thanks, Rick. I do think I will follow up with this plan. I look forward to meeting those guys in person some day.

I'd love to hear about your experience working with them on a mandolin. When did you arrange for the Magistrale? Have you received it yet? If so, what are your impressions?

Mick

[zoukboy]

Dimitris also makes mandolins. I'm receiving this one for a student next week and will give a report.

I just realized that I never replied with the promised report about this instrument. My student has had it for about 6 months now and I have had the opportunity to play it on an almost weekly basis. It is quite an extraordinary instrument with many of the characteristics of bowl back mandos but different as well. The best description I can give is that it is a soprano laouto, but if you are not familiar with the laouto that won't help. If you can imagine a cross between a Neapolitan mandolin and a lute, then you'd be in the ballpark. It has a 14 1/8" scale and is very lightly strung: .009/.013/.022./032. The tied-on nylon frets really make it sound more like a lute than just about any other mandolin I've ever heard. Seems to work for almost anything except Bluegrass.

[Bruce Clausen]

I wonder if anyone here knows anything about the builder Giuseppe Venzana, building around 1910 in Naples. Dave Hynds' site shows an example plus a label, but a search of the Cafe gives nothing at all. There's one for sale locally here, a plainer model than Dave's, that looks like it could be brought back to life without too much trouble. I haven't seen it but am tempted to take a look. Ad is here:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/va...472149129.html

Thanks for any insights.

[Jim Garber]

Prob decent mandolin tho the top repairs might be of concern. All of the Venzana mandolins in my files have Paul Beuscher labels and tho they were made in Italy, I wonder f there was some exclusive sales agreement.

[brunello97]

Bruce, I have a number of Venzana mandolins in my image files of with various stylistic differences in rosettes, bindings, pickguards etc. Two have labels which like yours and also include the extra label from the Parisian shop.

I'm always intrigued to check out Italian mandolins that have made it over here. That the Venzana's are signed and numbered at least suggests a closer level of care and quality may be there. I've never seen one in person. Hard to tell about the quality of these MOR builders. The fret spacing can be so variable in my experience. When the intonation is good, I think they sound pretty nice even the more modest ones. When they are off, well...

That top looks like it has had its fair share of repair. The neck angle is key as you know. Let us know what you find if you go check it out.

Mick

[Bruce Clausen]

Thanks for your comments, lads. I've inquired whether the owner has any of the missing bits, but haven't heard back. Doesn't seem very promising as a project, but I may go get a look.

I guess correct fret spacing is something I've always taken for granted. Thanks, Mick!

[Martin Jonas]

Hard to tell about the quality of these MOR builders. The fret spacing can be so variable in my experience. When the intonation is good, I think they sound pretty nice even the more modest ones. When they are off, well...

No just the MOR builder, either. When I got my Giuseppe Vinaccia, the frets were so erratic it was effectively unplayable. May of course not have been the original fretboard -- Jon Springall, who did the repairs for me, thought it may have been a replacement as he couldn't envisage Giuseppe letting it out of the shop like that. Jon made me a new fretboard and it's a wonderfully sounding mandolin.

Martin

[Tavy]

Here's a curiosity on eBay uk:

[Jim Garber]

I have only examples of two La Foley mandolins. The bowlback looks very close to this one but it not the same one. The flatback is a little different with a circular soundhole. I wonder if they were actually made in the UK.

[brunello97]

George La Foley's instruments certainly are curious, John. I have a few in my files where he is exploring this soundhole design. I wonder what the repositioning of the soundhole sounds like?

Don't know much about the man himself or his operation, though.

Mick

[Jim Garber]

It is funny that the seller says, "This mandolin is sold with its original bridge" but I think he is talking about the ebony suppressor.

Thread about a La Foley mandolin, mostly talks about the ebony suppressor. This Foley pictures in that thread looks like a Demeglio -- different from the others with the vertical oval soundhole.

Some tangential and sketchy info about La Foley on a page by Gregg Miner.

Some ukes by the firm.

It says on this catalog page that George La Foley makes these hawaiians by hand.

[Tavy]

I particularly like the part of the label that says: "The scale of this instrument is compensated and warranted to play in tune", which sort of tells you all you need to know about all the other bowlbacks of the day

[Jim Garber]

You don't see too many of these for sale: 2004 Pandini mandolin for sale in Italy. The hard case alone goes for prob €200 or more.

[Marc Woodward]

Whoops! You're never safe from MAS... Last night I fell off the wagon.
£113 on eBay... Cristofaro mandolin
I've known people who rate these highly - but you don't often see them come up for sale. Anyone got one/played one?
I'll report further when I've received it



Marc

[Tavy]

Congrat's Marc,

Though I must say those are seriously weird looking things!

And how did I not see that one on eBay? (slaps forhead!)

John.

[billkilpatrick]

very interesting - to me it looks more french in style than italian