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Thread: Bowlbacks of Note

  1. #4726

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Has this one been around before?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Grauso-B...3A1%7C294%3A50

    Dunno... looks healthy; now, whether it's worth much, I wouldn't know. If it stays low...

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  2. #4727
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Yet another scam on that 1957 Embergher. The "seller" even uses exactly the same photos and text on this classified site.

    I emailed him to see if i could come buy to see it.
    Jim

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  3. #4728

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Say... I've got a bridge to sell you-- EACH ONE of you, that is. Hey, you can trust me, I'll give you all a good deal.

    Sheriff Big Jim Garber gathers his posse again...

    Hip-hip!

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  4. #4729
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Looks like this seller was banned. I checked and it looks like he scanned eBay for ads like the one for the Embergher and copied all of the images and descriptions and then put a bunch of ads on that site at reduced prices. Hoobly said:

    Warning: The Hoobly member that placed this ad has been banned. Hoobly recommends tha you do not pursue any transaction with this member!
    Jim

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  5. #4730
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Thank you, masked man.
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  6. #4731
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Very nice....
    Jim

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  7. #4732
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by vkioulaphides View Post
    Has this one been around before?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Grauso-B...3A1%7C294%3A50

    Cheers,

    Victor

    Victor, this looks familiar, but perhaps since it is rather handsome it stuck in my mind. I recommended it to our young Neapolitan friend, who seems frustrated in his search for just the right bowl. It will probably go for a bargain price.

    Wasn't there some ongoing speculation recently about from where the AGrauso mandolins were sourced? Interesting that the label makes the NY-Napoli connection overt.

    Mick

  8. #4733

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Mick's montage made my day.

    Those silver bullets still hit the mark, Jim!

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  9. #4734
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Wasn't there some ongoing speculation recently about from where the AGrauso mandolins were sourced? Interesting that the label makes the NY-Napoli connection overt.
    I believe that Antonio Grauso was, among at least two others, a disciple of Luigi Ricca. I think a lot of these Italian immigrant luthiers in America wanted to sound larger and more international than they were. AFAIK (which is not too far) Grauso made his mandolins in New York.

    Here is an ornate and pricey presentation Grauso from Lark Street Music.
    Jim

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  10. #4735
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    No fluted ribs, no engraving or inlay on tuner buttons . . . what were they thinking?

    Could Grauso be the progenitor of Antonio Tsai?

  11. #4736
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Yikes. The Grauso that Victor linked to went for $118. Unbelieveable.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Grauso-B...3A1%7C294%3A50

    Things still do fall through the ebay cracks.

    Mick

  12. #4737
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Do you think our young Neapolitan friend got it? I thought of going for it but the high bidder upped his bid after the initial one so he was serious. And, of course, I should be selling, not buying.
    Jim

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  13. #4738

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    There's also a healthy-looking Vega in the Classifieds, asking $200, including gig-bag and shipping. All finding takes is a bit of seeking...

    Best of luck to all bowl-seekers out there!

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  14. #4739

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    There seems to be quite a few good deals on antique bowlbacks -- if one knows what one is looking for. But, unfortunately I don't know enough yet to do so -- I too afraid that I'd wind up with a pretty decoration and not a playable instrument.
    2009 Calace Model 24

  15. #4740
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by JMJ_coder View Post
    There seems to be quite a few good deals on antique bowlbacks -- if one knows what one is looking for. But, unfortunately I don't know enough yet to do so -- I too afraid that I'd wind up with a pretty decoration and not a playable instrument.
    Good deals can still be had on many decent quality bowlbacks, particularly American made instruments from the 1890s to 1920 or so. The high end Martin and Vega artist models fetch scary prices but both those companies, as well as the Lyon and Healy Washburn line, offered high quality across their full range of instruments. There were a dizzying array of other builders and labels some of regularly high quality (e.g. Larson and my favorite, Favilla) and others who made instruments across a wider range of prices and quality (e.g. Manello, Grauso, Ricca.)

    Then of course are the myriad of Italian, French and German made bowlbacks with a similar breadth of quality and lack thereof. Too much to go into in one not-so-short post. We don't see as many as we might like here in the States. Where are you located? That might help narrow or broaden your search.

    Neck and top related issues seem to be the betes noires of these old instruments. If you find an instrument in which these are in good shape then the chances of a safe bet are higher. Many bowlbacks from this era where highly ornamented which is no guarantee of higher quality sound or playability.

    Perusing through this thread for information and examples can be very enjoyable (at least it is for me) and I have learned enormous amounts from regulars like Victor, Jim, Martin, Eugene, Bob, Plami and many others who really know their stuff. Let folks know what you are looking for and you'll find no lack of interested suggestions and recommendations.

    Mick

  16. #4741
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Did any of our colleagues in the UK make it to this Bonham's Auction on June 23rd? I linked to the sale of a collection of mandolins, some notable but many needing restoration. The collection of bowlbacks started at lot #90.
    Jim

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  17. #4742
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Real-life auctions feel strange to me for all but the most desirable collectables, say a Loar, something high-profile enough that one can expect everybody who is seriously interested to hear about the auction. For anything else, it just seems like an arbitrary limiting of the potential bidders compared to an online auction.

    Looking at this auction, it's a bit confusingly presented, but I think that they sold some of the mandos off as job lots and others individually. A few decent instruments and some junk, but pretty random values. The values may of course be influenced by condition, which seems doubtful in some instances. Still, an A4 at 900 Pounds, a K1 at 1320 Pounds and an F4 at 2160 Pounds seem cheap for the UK market (and pretty good even for the US market). Of the bowlbacks, some of the de Meglios seem to have been bid high compared to typical Ebay prices, but then there is a lot of two de Meglios going for a combined 96 Pounds. Some of the others seem underbid, others wildly overbid. I can't imagine paying 312 Pounds for that Stridente or 240 Pounds for that Silvestre.

    Martin

  18. #4743
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I used to go to carpet auctions with my brother in Singapore. I would get pretty agitated and bought what now appear as curious rugs. I agree, Martin, for me it is a good thing the ebay allows some detachment.

    So the same 1000L would get you in on an A4 or a autographed photo of La Divina? I admit to a certain fondness for her and Puccini but would probably resist. How about you, Victor?

    Mick

  19. #4744

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Ah, no top-feeder, I...

    In fact, my latest acquisition —as of today!— was a second-hand (but WONDERFUL!) Dogal case for my trusty Calace. The Dogal came with a friend's Classico A; she then upgraded to a custom-made Kingham, and the Dogal trickled down to me, as it were; keeping the good stuff circulating, I will hand down the Calace shop-case that came with my mandolin to yet another dear friend.

    The bottom line is that I am DELIGHTED with my new toy (or rather accessory thereof), and plan to put it to good use (especially as it comes with both a single shoulder-strap and two, symmetrical, back-pack straps)— a HUGE benefit to those of us negotiating the straits of N.Y. City subway turnstiles. Have niftily portable mando, will travel.

    The end result of my humble tastes is the "real illusion" of wealth.

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  20. #4745
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I did get quite a few of my favorite instruments at carpet auctions. My technique is, unlike many others, is to figure out what I can pay (factoring in the premium) and then sit up front (as opposed to the back) so I can't see who is bidding against me (I don't really want to know). Works for me. Sort of fun in a stupid way. I haven't done it in years tho.
    Jim

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  21. #4746
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    But really, how can a man choose?

    Mick
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  22. #4747

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Answer: Not so easily.

    Did you know that there IS, in fact, a tangential, personal link between La Divina and the mandolin? Seriously, now... Quite surreally, Yours Truly comes into the picture, too. (How's that for a cliff-hanger? )

    A few years back, I got a call from a New York public school (P.S. 79, I think). The music teacher there happened to be the sister of a cellist I had gone to conservatory with, so she had been referred to me by my former classmate. "We have a room full of mandolins", she said, "and no use for them." After a pause and a sigh, she added darkly, "The custodian has convinced the principal that they must go before the school-year begins." It already was late August.

    So, either bravely or stupidly --your judgment-- I said, "Sure, I'll take them"-- even though, of course, in the Manhattan cubicle where we live there is NO space for even ONE more instrument! In the course of subsequent conversations with the school's administration, I asked them the question begged, i.e. how come they had SO many old instruments around. (I was baffled, as my own Better Half is also a music teacher at a public school, but obviously the most common instrumentarium is mostly new, not vintage.) After a deeper yet sigh, the person from P.S. 79 explained, "If you only knew... Maria Callas went to this school, back in the '30s." My jaw dropped. "Oh, we've had SO much music over the years... Now the last remnants of our music program will end up in the trash-heap." I could sense the person on the other end of the phone-line choking up. I reiterated my offer to help, and hung up; it was both too awkward and too painful for both of us to continue that conversation.

    As for the silver lining: out of the 30-40 instruments I "adopted" (albeit VERY briefly, as a pass-through surrogate), about 10-or-so were salvageable. Upon hearing of this imminent mando-disaster, I had IMMEDIATELY contacted Scott Tichenor, who referred me to a friend of his, who was in turn starting a plucked instrument program at his school (somewhere in the Pacific Northwest, I believe), and was in dire need of instruments. I gave the "survivors" a quick dusting, packed them in a great bit cardboard box, and shipped them off to a Better Place. Everybody won, so to speak. We'll never know whether those mandolins and La Divina were ever in the same place at the same time-- ships passing in the night, and all that.

    I apologize for the digression and for the perhaps trivial personal anecdote, as those instruments were hardly "of note". Their story, perhaps...

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  23. #4748
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Amazing story, V, thanks for passing it on. Chain lightening sure feels good.

    Mick

  24. #4749
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Not a bowlback or even an instrument, but I know a few of us are still lacking one of these important books: The Guitar and Mandolin by Philip J. Bone. This is the 1972 edition. I have a copy already, so go for it. Also the seller is a reliable one. I have bought a few things from him in the past.
    Jim

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  25. #4750
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Before one goes for the book, I think he/she should know that the 1914 edition can be downloaded free of charge in the following link:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/15815467/B...er-London-1914

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