Bowlbacks of Note

**Linda Binder** · Oct-25-2006, 11:38am

Originally Posted by (vkioulaphides @ Oct. 25 2006, 12:09)

<<was planning to drop you an "R U OK?" e-note. I am glad to be assured otherwise.>>

S! I M OK!

I'm glad you didn't buy a bass version Victor. It might make your bass angry. As for me...I'm fine, just disorganized! Thanks for thinking of me!
--Linda

**vkioulaphides** · Oct-25-2006, 12:21pm

U R

Yeah, I could not imagine myself shlepping bass AND some ridiculously large, ridiculously bulky cast-iron contraption in and out of New York subway trains...

Besides —speaking of mandolins, of course— I doubt that the contact the bowl has with the (player's) body does much to dampen the tone.

**Bob A** · Oct-25-2006, 11:21pm

I agree, Victor; one of the prime advantages of a bowlback is the limited contact it makes with the player's body, thus limiting the damping of all that joyful noise.

Still, the metal thing is visually interesting in its way; one feels that one's mandolin is not likely to become pregnant while one is off to the Crusades.

**vkioulaphides** · Oct-26-2006, 9:47am

Don't encourage the industry, Bob! Before you know it, there will be the Acme Tone-Guard/Chastity-Belt All-Purpose Contraption ®

**Jim Garber** · Oct-26-2006, 11:26am

I know, not actually an instrument, but rather than start a Bowlback Cases of Note thread...

Steve Perry of Gianna Violins posted this ad for Eastman cases. I just bought one for my sometime coming Embergher. I have one other for one of my Calaces.

They tell me that they have about 6 more of these for those of you who need such a thing. I have a distinct feeling that they will not be ordering too many more. BTW they are all white which is not a bad thing if you take your Vinaccia to the beach

Jim

**Martin Jonas** · Oct-27-2006, 12:48pm

Not actually a bowlback, in fact I'm not too sure what it is. This monstrosity is a strong contender for the ugliest mandolin around. A very similar one was for sale (and discussed on the Cafe) a few months ago, but I think this one is actually a different one by the same maker. Rather like an F4 that's been left out int he sun to melt (with some chewing gum to make that hideous blue inlay figurine).

Martin

**vkioulaphides** · Oct-27-2006, 1:05pm

Hey, man... what's-a-matter-you? Don't you dig Dalí?

P.S. Reminds one how absolutely GORGEOUS normal instruments are.

**Jim Garber** · Oct-27-2006, 2:25pm

Originally Posted by (martinjonas @ Oct. 27 2006, 13:48)

Not actually a bowlback, in fact I'm not too sure what it is. This monstrosity is a strong contender for the ugliest mandolin around. A very similar one was for sale (and discussed on the Cafe) a few months ago, but I think this one is actually a different one by the same maker. Rather like an F4 that's been left out int he sun to melt (with some chewing gum to make that hideous blue inlay figurine).

Martin

Palm Guitars has another Garozzo -- might be the one that you are referring to. They say from Catania. Similar construction, evidentally a double-top.

Jim

**Martin Jonas** · Oct-27-2006, 5:09pm

That one looks almost sane compared to the Ebay one -- it's at least largely symmetrical. No, the one I've seen before was fairly similar to the current one.

They clearly have a double top, but whereas I give Messrs. Gelas, Ceccherini and Virzi the credit of thinking seriously about sound production, somehow I am less inclined to extend this to Garozzo. The outer top is clearly carved, in fact looks similar to the very early Gibsons, but I wonder whether it's purely cosmetic and if you strip it away, there's a plain conventional mandolin underneath.

Martin

**Jim Garber** · Nov-04-2006, 10:30am

Not too many BBON lately, eh?

Here's one I was sort of interested if I could get it for a low price. The oddness of this one is that the label applied by Tipaldi (the importer) is spelled wrong. Made me think it was possibly not a genuine Vinaccia and it may very well not be. I still have a feeling it will go for more serious money. There are a few of the bowlback chasers who are pursuing it right now.

It is still very reasonable if it is a genuine Vinaccia. Does anyone know if Flli. Vinaccia was ever located on Via Duomo or was there a wanabe maker called Vanacchia?

Jim

**Martin Jonas** · Nov-06-2006, 5:24am

Here is a Carlo Loveri (misspelled) with five hours to go and a desultory high bid. I've bought one of these for a friend, which was a very nice instrument with excellent workmanship and really good tight-grained wood. This one looks decent, too. The defects noted by the seller are trivial.

Nice de Meglio, too, another not so nice one (there seems to be a top crack), and yet another one, this one unusually with a completely plain scratchplate.

I do wonder about this anonymous one -- it has the Vinaccia style tailpiece pegs, which most of their copyists and pupils replaced with metal tailpieces.

All of them much cheaper than this Regal/Victor reverse-scroll bottomfeeder.

Martin

Edit: link fixed.

**brunello97** · Nov-06-2006, 8:55am

Martin,
As far as carp go, that is still a fairly decent looking Regal. I wonder if it has been refinished? The top appears fairly wide-grained, but I've played numerous Gibson As with similar appearing grain that sound quite nice. The reverse-scroll thing has always given me a bit of the creeps. Maybe they have a uniqueness to the English eye. We'll see how the final prices go. My hunch is that the de Meglio will in the end be, well, tanto meglio.
Mick

**chey47** · Nov-06-2006, 7:30pm

Were can someone get a really nice mandolin? Like Embergher, Calace etc.

**Jim Garber** · Nov-06-2006, 8:22pm

Either be prepared to spend the bucks (or euros or pounds etc) or else take your chances on the auction site. IMHO no real deals for the top three makers since most bidders will fight to the market value or else the sellers place the reserve at or near the market value.

Otherwise, here is a list of a few sellers who usually have quality vintage bowlbacks:

Carlo Mazzacarra (Naples)

Marco Onorati (Rome)

Sinier de Ridder France

Calace (Naples)

Ikegaku (Japan)

William Petit (France)

Vintage Instruments (Philadelphia)

Occasionally some of the bigger American dealers come across some Italian bowlbacks, butm, for the most part they are not in the US but more in Europe and the UK.

Good Luck
Jim

**Jim Garber** · Nov-06-2006, 9:03pm

I just came across this mandolin blog. I am not sure who this guy is or where he is but these are nice-looking mandolins and a few Neapolitan makers I was unaware of.

Jim

**Bob A** · Nov-06-2006, 11:07pm

While I lucked into a nice Vinaccia, it still ran to a grand with the many necessary repairs. I suppose I lucked into my Pecoraro, but it still ran high. I figure I was lucky in just getting an opportunity to purchase at a fixed price, rather than having to chase it thru an auction.

It might be worth putting the word out to a responsive and well-connected dealer that you are looking for a particular maker's instrument; having right of first refusal is a nice position to be in, in this kind of market.

While these things do come up on ebay, the higher-end items might also show up at Skinners, Christie's or the like. HOwever you might be dealing with a heavier crowd there. I think one of the very fancy Emberghers went for an astronomical sum a year or so ago.

If you have access to decent luthiery talent, and the necessary time, patience and luck, you might still get a deal on a damaged instrument. Of all the necessary virtues, the big one is patience. I could have saved a bundle on a Calace had I waited for several months instead of chasing mine on ebay, competing with the international mandolin mafia.

In fact, the best deal on a Calace instrument was here on the cafe classifieds. Most of the folks who watch this site are not into bowlbacks, and every now and then a good 'un will pop up.

Don't be too fixated on the Big Three (Calace, Vinaccia and Embergher (which also includes Pecoraro and Cerrone)): Ceccherini, Salsedo, De Meglio, Loveri and others also made excellent bowlbacks which can be had far more cheaply, and which are not so heatedly pursued. I should also mention Martin and Vega, which are arguably as good as any Italian instrument, but are either unknown or disparaged by Europeans, and of little interest to the typical American player. The Vega Pettine Special is, in my estimation, the finest bowlback ever made on this continent. When they show up in the marketplace, they typically sell for about 2K.

Of course, all this is relative. If you're looking at the like of Gilchrist or, heaven help you, Lloyd Loar, you can amass a bunch of world-class bowlbacks for the cost of one of the above. It's kind of amazing, really, to think that a concert-quality professional bowlback can be had for a couple grand, up to maybe 6K for an Embergher 5bis. (Of course the Emberghers clad in tortoise and pearl, with tuner buttons of unicorn horn, are a different story, but they're more museum pieces than players' instruments).

**Bob A** · Nov-06-2006, 11:09pm

Despite having too many bowlbacks already, I'm sorry I didn't bid on the Loveri. 63 pounds, forsooth!

**chey47** · Nov-08-2006, 11:53am

This is Joe from Lexington KY and I appreciate the info given to me above. I am really interested in a nice classical mandolin as I find myself playing more of this type of music all the time, to me much more rewarding than say playing a fiddle tune etc. I may look into one of the Martins.

**Bob A** · Nov-08-2006, 6:56pm

The Larson brothers made some fine bowlbacks as well. They were sold under a number of brand names; Stahl and Maurer come to mind.

Don't overlook Lyon & Healy mandolins, which are well suited for a classical repertoire, and have some advantages; they're carved like Gibsons, so you don't have to wrestle with a totally foreign body style, they come in two scale lengths, 13" and 14", so you don't have to adapt to a short scale (though it does come in handy for long stretches), and they fit well into other musical styles, as they have a more authoritative bass than a bowlback, but a heavenly treble that you'll never get out of a Gibson - there's just too much wood to move in a Gib. While they're not cheap, they're still way undervalued for what they are, and are delightful instruments.

You should have a lot of fun chasing this rainbow. Be sure to keep us posted.

**Jim Garber** · Nov-08-2006, 10:26pm

Kurt DeCorte in Belgium has 5 sets of original <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-Luigi-EMBERGHER-strings-for-MANDOLIN-5-sets_W0QQitemZ270052582050QQihZ017QQcatego
ryZ359QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Embergher strings</a> for sale.

Jim

**Martin Jonas** · Nov-09-2006, 7:32am

Thanks for the heads-up, Jim -- I might well bid for these, if they stay reasonable.

Martin

**Jim Garber** · Nov-09-2006, 9:33am

I am not sure how usable these would be except as collectors items. I am uncertain about the shelf life of strings.

Jim

**Martin Jonas** · Nov-09-2006, 9:52am

Depends on how they are kept, but I do know that Ralf had reported that he was using old original 1920s Embergher stock quite recently -- the Gervasio piece on his website is recorded with them!

Martin

**MML** · Nov-09-2006, 9:52pm

Perhaps off top, but did any of you bowl back geeks see the little Bauer that sold today. I have never seen a perfect scale miniture like it before, pretty cool pretty expensive...Boy its kinda nice down here.

**Bob A** · Nov-09-2006, 10:45pm

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Mandolin-Tiny-Inlaid-Mother-Of-Pearl-Antique-BAUER_W0QQitemZ300045122848QQihZ020QQcategory
Z10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Here's the link</a> to the Bauer. Cute, and not cheap, and apparently hotly pursued.