Radial Arm Saw Help Needed!

[tennbidder]

I have been given a Craftsman Radial Arm saw (circa 1960)

Unfortunately, the tables and fence are not there and I cannot determine how to install them properly. I found a copy of the original manual on the net but it really does not help.

There are 4 screw points that can be used to install the front table, but I don't see exactly how to install a fence and rear table.

There are 2 adjusting screws (one fabricated) that appear to allow for adjustament of the fence once installed)

I have searched for a descriptive photo but have found none.

Any help or advice wopuld be GREATLY appreciated !

[tennbidder]

Another angle

[Rick Lindstrom]

This is harder to explain than it is in reality:

The table is two pieces- the larger part, which is really the working surface, is bolted down to the rails and ends an inch or so from where the saw blade would touch down if you lowered it to the extended (imaginary) surface of the table directly beneath the blade.

A second, much narrower piece of the table material fits between the back edge of the large table and the two thumbscrews you see at the back ends of the rail. It is not fastened down, and should be wide enough to leave an opening between itself and the large table of a little more than 3/4" when the thumb screws are backed all the way out.

Into the opening goes an upright piece of 3/4" material about 1-1/2" wide, and as long as the width of the main table. The thumb screws are then tightend down, which moves the small rear table forward to tighten down on the upright piece, which as you will see, is the fence.

Put your blade on the saw and push it to the rearward position. Turn it on, and lower it until it just touches the table. Pull it forward, cutting a slot in through the fence and a slight groove in the main table. Push it back, turn it off and you are ready to go.

Radial arm saws are scary and somewhat more dangerous than, say, band saws and some of the other stuff you might run into in the shop. Proceed with caution- keep a sharp blade on it and be aware of its tendency to "self-feed" when you are making a cut. Keep your free hand away from the blade.

Regards-

Rick

[tennbidder]

Ah, that makes sense.

The saw is then trued to the fence instead of the other way around.

MANY THANKS

[Rick Lindstrom]

It's been a while since I set one of these up- I forgot that it's probably best to square the arm to the table before cutting the slot.

A good way to do this is to use a carpenter's square- move the motor and blade out over the table and lower it until it is just barely above the table. Place one arm of the square against the fence and the other gently against the blade. When you move the saw in and out on its track, it'll be evident if it's square, and if not, which way to adjust it. The adjustment will probably will be on the pillar somewhere. Once it's square, cut the slot.

Of course, you're opening a can of worms here- as you do this adjustment, you'll realize that the table should be adjusted to be parallel with the arm (fore and aft), and also that the blade itself needs to be parallel to the arm, and square to the table. Hopefully your manual will cover all of this.

Rick

[tennbidder]

Thankfully, the manual has very good instrructions on squaring and truing this sucker up.

There are several internal adjustment points that are designed to compensate for wear and tear which is pretty cool.

[sunburst]

I'm not a big fan of radial saws, and I don't have one, but...I've used one with a 'negative hook angle' blade, and it did as it is supposed to do. It did not self feed.
Most normal circular saw teeth have a positive hook angle, and will self feed, but by slanting the teeth the other way, (backwards, so it looks) manufacturers have made blades that don't self feed in a radial saw.
However, that is no excuse for any less emphasis on safe operation!

[jim simpson]

I find that my miter saw does most of the work that I used to use my radial arm saw for. I do like using the radial saw with a dado blade setup for making cd/dvd/vhs shelves and also soji screens. Now if I could work in some mandolin work with either of these.

[Michael Lewis]

Once you get that saw adjusted and set up it will make good trading material for a band saw, table saw, or drill press.

I used to have one. I also used to work in construction. In my mind the radial arm saw is suited to the construction trade and not to lutherie.

One point regarding use: the American method is to put the work against the fence and pull the saw through the work, the European method is to draw the saw out, place the work against the fence, and push the saw through the work. The European method avoids the self feeding tendency. It is a dangerous tool regardless.

[ejkauf99]

These saws were most popular in the days when there was not such an abundance of good affordable powertools 50's through early 80's. While best for crosscutting you can rip with them. You can also get a Craftsman planer like a Wagner head.
If you want to see everthing the saw can do get a copy of " The Complete Book of Power Tools" by De Christoforo.
By the way. I used a radial arm to cut the fret slots for the first guitar I ever made which was a copy of a Martin parlor guitar. The saw was bumped before I started cutting, and all my fret slots were about 2 degrees off. I did'nt know whether to drop back or punt, but the ebony was so fine I used the fretboard anyway. The guitar sounds better than me new OM21. Just make sure she's square to the fence, and Keep your stock holding hand out of the line of cut. Enjoy
ED

[kestrel]

For what it's worth - After forty-years in wood-working, there's one machine I won't have in my shop, and that's a radial arm saw. IMO - next to a shaper slinging a three-inch panel cutter, a RAS is the most dangerous beast there is. Yes, you can rip with them, but my advice is DON'T - unless you really want to see how fast and hard a piece of wood can fly past (or at) you. I've still got a thumb and four fingers on each hand, but no thanks to a RAS. You can exercise all the caution and safe practice you want, but sooner or later, that evil sucker will crawl over a board and try to eat your hand. All power machines are dangerous, but (again, my opinion) radial arm saws are machines from hell! Fix it up. Trade it on a chop-saw. Use it as a door stop. Sell it for scrap.

[PaulD]

While I'm not a big fan of radical harm... I mean radial arm saws, if I were given that beast and if I didn't have a good cutoff saw I'd put it to use. I've comfortably ripped both wood and steel on radial arm saws... you have to think through your setup and make sure neither the head or your material can go anywhere you don't want it to. I wouldn't rip with that Craftsman saw as I don't see any anti-kickback pawls on it. Another complaint I've always had is every RAS I've used seems to be a real b!tch to keep cutting square... they seem to take constant fiddling. I would consider using it as a cutoff saw, and I like Michael's suggestion of pushing the blade rather than pulling it (although it will still come back at you if it kicks).

If you're going to use it you may consider rigging a guard for it to minimize the possibility of sticking anything in the blade other than your wood. I do like its lines... the old machines definately had more class than their new, colorful plastic counterparts.

I am a fan of the new miter saws... I love my 12" Dewalt sliding compound miter saw. It will do everything I would use a radical harm saw for (I rip on the table saw or bandsaw), it's a precision machine, and it's much more compact and portable than a RAS. It also has a guard that covers the blade right up until it's ready to cut without hanging up on the work. 90% of the time I could get by with a 10" chop saw, and they're a lot cheaper, but I was able to buy what I wanted rather than what I needed with insurance money after my shop was vandalized.

Paul Doubek

P.S. I guess the fact that I started calling them Radical Harm Saws way back when I was first getting serious about woodworking says a lot about how I feel about them. I would still use it if it were given to me, I just wouldn't buy one.

[Rick Lindstrom]

Back when I had a radial arm saw, one of the best (and least scary) uses I found for it was as extra workbench space. The arm could be rotated a full 90 degrees, putting it parallel to the wall behind the machine and completely freeing the table for other uses.

In retrospect, I think the real reason that I bought it in the first place was because I didn't have room for a full sized table saw in my small workshop area. I would have much preferred the table saw.

There was one really cool thing I used my RAS for that I don't think could have been done with any other pice of machinery quite as nicely- if you rotate the motor so that the blade is parallel to the table and put on a 10" blade, you have a fly cutter of sorts that with a little bit of jigging will do a superb job of cutting the relief in the heel of a banjo neck where it joins the pot. I also used that setup to notch out the heel to receive the tension hoop. The 10" radius cut that this setup made in the heel gave about as perfect a fit with an 11" rim as you could ask for.

Rick

[thistle3585]

Wow, I never saw them as being that dangerous. My first chop saw was one of those Craftsman. I use one, a Delta, on a daily basis to cut boards to length. I have a production shop, so it isn't uncommon for me to make several hundred cuts a day. I have a table that extends 12 feet to either side of the saw, so that helps too.

In terms of safety, the first thing I did was to take OFF the anti-kick back arms and blade guard. Did the same thing on the tablesaw. I've seen more injuries as a result of those being on than off.

That "European" technique scares the hell out of me. I can only assume that you turn the saw on AFTER you have placed the material behind it.

[PaulD]

Wow, I never saw them as being that dangerous. My first chop saw was one of those Craftsman. I use one, a Delta, on a daily basis to cut boards to length. I have a production shop, so it isn't uncommon for me to make several hundred cuts a day. I have a table that extends 12 feet to either side of the saw, so that helps too.

In terms of safety, the first thing I did was to take OFF the anti-kick back arms and blade guard. Did the same thing on the tablesaw. I've seen more injuries as a result of those being on than off.

That "European" technique scares the hell out of me. I can only assume that you turn the saw on AFTER you have placed the material behind it.

Thistle: how you use your RAS is the best use I can think of for one, but one that my compound miter does as well. I've worked in several cabinet shops where we had the RAS set up under or near the lumber storage for crosscutting to length. In that application you don't care about accuracy.

The thing that makes them scary to me is that the blade is always exposed and that they can run away or self-feed if you don't maintain a good grip and stance while using them. Contrary to how you're supposed to set up a table saw, I think with a RAS you're best off lowering the blade as deep as you can for the cut. That way there's less blade exposed and less tendency for it to self-feed. Of course if you're doing dados and grooves all you can do is brace yourself.

A good saw guard is a great safety device... the problem with alot of these old machines is that the guards suck. My previous miter saw was an old Makita 14" that was a great workhorse but the guard had to be wedged up out of the way so it wouldn't hang up during the cut. If the guard gets in the way, I agree that it can be more of a hazard than a safety feature.

My point about the anti-kick pawls was primarily related to ripping. When I've ripped with a RAS I've tried to set it up so I can control the stock without getting my hands anywere near that blade and I see the pawls as one more element of control in that case.

BTW, one of the most insane uses for these saws I've ever seen are those molding heads they used to sell for them. They take the risk involved in running a shaper and add the risk of ripping on a radical harm saw... I've never had any desire to use one of these machines this way!

Oh yeah... I was assuming the saw would be off while setting up for the cut in Michael's European technique too.

pd

[thistle3585]

True. I have no need for accuracy in that respect. Plus or minus 1" is good for me. The only function of that saw is to rough cut boards. The blade is set so that it cuts below the table surface, and I think that makes for a better cutting operation as it tends to cut through vs. try to climb up on to the board.
From a repetitive operation, I like the sliding aspect vs. the downward of a miter saw. Its easier on the shoulders. It also allows me to cut wider boards.

[PaulD]

I know this is drifting off topic, but maybe it will help Tenbidder decide whether to keep the saw.

What I like about my sliding compound miter is that it will supposedly cut a 4/4 x 16" board, but I've never cut anything wider that 10" or 11" with it. After thinking about it, I do use it as Michael describes when crosscutting wide boards. I tend to draw the motor assembly toward me, start the motor, drop it into the board, and push to cut. It does add a motion to the process when dropping the blade, and if I were running a production cabinet shop I can see where that may introduce fatigue or repetetive motion problems.

pd

[Paul Hostetter]

I have an old Delta radial arm saw which is so solid and tight that I use it to cut fretslots, which is a task one cannot do on a chop saw, unless one is real creative. When Mike Kemnitzer was out here in July and we were talking shop, he allowed as he used the exact same saw for years for that task himself. He's largely CNC now, but since I do mostly repair and seldom make the same board twice, it makes more sense to do what I do.

I don't find a radial arm saw nearly as scary as a jointer. I know there are a lot more fingers lost to jointers than to radial arm saws.

Regarding old Sears shop tools, believe it or not they still carry parts for them. I had a vintage 1965 Craftsman 6x48 belt sander whose roller bearings died on me and got some other replacement, which I never really liked as well. Lo and behold, after getting by with the import item for a couple of years I discovered I could buy the whole roller asssembly, bearings and all, from Sears for a very reasonable price. My cast-iron doorstop is back in action.

[Antlurz]

My pucker factor goes a LOT higher when I'm using my 1/2" shaper than it ever does using my radial arm saw.

Ron

[tennbidder]

Appreciate all the comments !

I am by no means a luthier, but more an occasional hobby woodoworker (bookshelves, toyboxes, etc.) That being said, I am about to embark on some lutherie with a ukulele kit, for which the RAS has no application at all, of course.

That being said, what would some of you suggest the RAS be used for as an ALTERNATIVE to a crosscut only? This model has the extra power shaft coming out the other side.

How do you feel about the thickness planer attachments that are sold for drill presses? My shop space is limited, so I am pondering also the best use of space there. I'd love to have a high-quality band saw, but alas, funds are limited.

[Paul Hostetter]

The only essential shop tools I can think of - they were my first three and they would be again - would be a drill press, a band saw, and a 6x48 belt sander. If that Delta RAS hadn't fallen into my lap, I would not have bothered with it. I built my own house and my own shop, so it came in handy, but about all I use it for now, besides bench space, is for slotting boards.

My old Craftsman 6x48 is rigged to do some thickness sanding, which is one of the reasons I'm happy to have it back in operation.

[thistle3585]

Obviously a bandsaw would be key, but I also favor a good router table in my shop. I use it, in conjunction with jigs, to cut neck blanks, molds, flatops etc. In my opinion, that is a very good piece of equipment and if you had no other use for it, I bet you could get enough out of it to get an entry level 14" bandsaw.

[Paul Hostetter]

An entry-level 14" bandsaw has done me fine for many years. If I need the precision required for resawing and so on, I go to those (Rick Turner in my case) who have the right tool, and just pay them to do it. My router table is so small that I don't even consider it a shop tool. It sits on a shelf when I'm not using it.

[tennbidder]

Good news!

I posted my Radial Arm Saw on Craig's List and inquired as to whether anyone would trade it for a good band saw.

Today, I heard from a fellow who will trade for a full-size Craftsman Band Saw. He's e-mailing the model number to me tonight.

I'll let you know how the swap goes!